Jochem,
Thanks for this clarification. So, I take it that a metaphor is an example of a "symmetry" [sensu frommi] because there are some invariant properties when we move from the source of the metaphor to the target. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 3:12 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] metaphor and talking across skill levels I just meant symmetry in the broad sense, for example that something has a symmetry if it has the regular form or a crystal structure. Crystals are very symmetrical, the atoms of a crystal are arranged in a regular, rigid grid. There are various crystal symmetries, just like there are various rhymes like Hexameter and Pentameter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal In mathematics, "symmetry" as everything else has a very precise definition, for example it could mean that an object is invariant to a transformation or can be mapped on another in some kind of isomorphism. But it could also just mean that two objects have the same size, for example a triangle with two sides of equal length is certainly symmetrical and has an axis of symmetry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry What I find surprising is that even in ordinary language symmetries seem to be very important, if you consider metaphors as symmetries in the world of ideas, i.e. as little gems. Some books are so full of gems that they shine and sparkle. You can mine them for insights, ideas and metaphors. It is true, authors and writers - literature in general - "own" metaphors, just as scientists own mathematics. Ernest Rutherford said "All science is either physics or stamp collecting". For writers and authors the stamps are metaphors. They collect metaphors and use them to decorate their books and works. Many have their own metaphor collection which they have acquired over time in notebooks, diaries, etc. Some scientific theories are nearly entirely based on metaphors - esp. evolution which is based on "natural selection" and "selfish genes". Some of our oldest books, the holy books of the big religions, are based on metaphors as well. The "house of god" or the "son of god" are metaphors just like the "selfish gene". Poems are in turn so condensed that they are like gems themselves. Take for example Ralph Waldo Emerson who writes "If the sages ask thee why This charm is wasted on the earth and sky, Tell them, dear, that if eyes were made for seeing, Then beauty is its own excuse for being" -J. On 03/09/2015 08:52 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: Historically, I have had terrible trouble with the way some folks employ "symmetry" on this list. Steve G. and I used to get into tangles about this. I get that crystals have "symmetry", but beyond that, I am struggling to understand what you mean. Perhaps you might explicate for those of us who have a hard time not thinking of symmetry as just "being the same on the right as on the left, etc." I am further made very nervous with any implication that literature "owns" metaphor whereas scientists are given to plain speech. I think this way of think VASTLY under states the role of metaphor in science. Think Natural Selection, for instance. Also, I have often wondered if a metaphor with magnetism lay behind Newton's thinking on gravity. Lodestones were of great interest to scientists in Court at the time because of their usefulness in navigation, but also as a curiousity. Lakoff and Nunen (?) describe the central role of metaphors in the development of mathematics. Peirce's emphasis on "sign" places something very like metaphor at the center of all scientific thought. Nick
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