F.
Nice! Hoist by my own petard. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 2:19 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The root of personality disorders Why does Trump display Narcissistic [Personality] Disorder Symptoms? Because he feels unrelenting emptiness and low self esteem which causes him great pain when anyone criticizes him or suggests that someone else is superior to him. This unbearable pain causes him to counterattack forcefully when he feels attacked regardless of whether an attack is actually intended by the other person. Is that less circular, Nick? Of course we will now have to deal with your claim that he is aware of his pain because he infers it from his behavior, to wit exhibiting the symptoms of NPD. Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jan 20, 2017 1:58 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net <mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: Nice, Eric, right on. Why does Trump display Narcissistic Disorder Symptoms. Because he has Narcissistic Disorder That’s viciously circular. But, Why does trump behave like a narcissist? Because he has Narcissistic Disorder is not so viciously circular because one has added the idea of “disorder”. I will leave to others to say what “disorder” implies, except to say that it seems to have a strong normative component. Something is “wrong” with the guy. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> ] On Behalf Of Eric Charles Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 11:45 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The root of personality disorders Glen, I'm not sure if Nick can do that. However, he is very good at clarifying issues by telling me how I am wrong. With that in mind, I'll attempt a summary, of which I am fairly confident: Circular explanations occur when a description of the phenomenon in question is offered as an explanation of said phenomenon. For example, when asked "why are there only small peanuts in this jar?" it would be circular to answer "because there are small peanuts in the jar." Note that "because there are small peanuts in the jar" could be a valuable explanation for many other questions, but not for that question, because in that context it is simply restating the thing-to-be-explained. There is a class of explanations - recursive explanations - that often get mistaken for circular explanations. Such explanations use the description offered in the original question as part of an explanation, but add additional information that moves the path of inquiry forward. A filter explanation is an example of a recursive explanation. For example, when asked "why are there only small peanuts in this jar?" it would not be circular to answer "because there jar was filled using small-peanut-filter, which only allows small peanuts to fall through." (And it is in exactly this way that, the Theory of Evolution by Means of Natural Selection is not circular, as it is commonly accused of being, when it is understood properly... which it frequently isn't, even by its prominent proponents.) Now, the shaky part, where I wonder why Nick thought it was relevant to this conversation: "Why does Trump appear to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?" Circular - "Because he has the symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder" (This takes us no where beyond that he has the symptoms, because the thing-to-be-explained was the appearing-to-have-NPD.) Not-circular - "Because he has a thing that causes those symptoms." (This doesn't add much, but it does add something. It eliminates possibilities such as his acting that way as a joke, or due to drugs, or that if we viewed him in a larger light we wouldn't see the symptoms at all, etc.) ----------- Eric P. Charles, Ph.D. Supervisory Survey Statistician U.S. Marine Corps On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 1:17 PM, glen ☣ <geprope...@gmail.com <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com> > wrote: On 01/18/2017 07:38 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Here is your assignment for tomorrow. I am a (proud) C student. So, of course, I will never meet your deadlines. 8^) > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281410347_Comparative_psychology_and_the_recursive_structure_of_filter_explanations > > There will be a quiz: What is the difference between a circular explanation > and a recursive one. What is the key dimension that determines whether an > explanation is viciously circular? Is the virtuus dormitiva viciously > circular? Why? Why not? It would help if you would distill your argument, here, rather than muddying it up with the natural selection, adaptation example. Would you mind doing that? -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
