Nick -
Vortices aside, I just checked the Syllabi of the Complexity Explorer
and find that there are MANY courses that might be of interest to you.
Do you find the language in them out of reach? Would having a small
study group online help with that? Are there any particular topics
there ( https://www.complexityexplorer.org/explore/syllabi) of interest?
- Steve
On 2/6/17 3:51 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
Nick -
I DO remember he tornado/vortex/swirlie discussions of yore, and in
fact, those were characteristic of the discussions I appreciated there
being here, just as I appreciated the "book club" you spearheaded on a
Complexity topic even earlier (what book was that?). I also
appreciated your "noodling" concept back in the day (not complexity as
such, excepting for the idea of emergent knowledge). I think your
contribution to this list, with your own specific background and as an
unabashed "innocent' on many topics is very valuable. I realize my
encouraging Doug in his juvenile responses (e.g. Swirlies) did
undermine your attempt to be serious about tornadoes, but it DID lead
you to meeting his Parrots I think? I have a fresh batch of Ravens
at my place who you are welcome to come engage with their
vocalizations (no wife now to limit my open invitations, just a
vicious dog who I can sequester with minor warning).
I agree that the deeper methods of Complexity Science ARE difficult
and subtle, but in many ways more intuitive and accessible (IMO) than
those of Relativistic and Quantum Physics. The *ideas* (as I think
Glen suggests) *are* pretty available... I would suggest that your
own field might be harder for educated laypersons from "adjacent
fields" to grasp, with even more reserved terminology? The fact that
Complexity Science spans (virtually?) all sciences ( and engineering
and technology ) means it *must* be accessible laterally. There is
little to no value to stovepiping it. I know some folks have made
quite a living off of making Complexity Science arcane... but far from
all. I think SFI does a very good job in general.
I don't know what it can be done in this forum, but perhaps. I think
that what complexityexplorer.org (thanks to SFI) is trying to do is
exactly what you are seeking? I sat in on the first round (online )
but it was "remedial" enough for me to not hold my interest, though I
*do* much need the thoroughness involved. I had hoped there would
form a "study group" here to follow the classes and have lots of peer
support. I don't remember their being much engagement in this forum?
I will agree with Glen's observation that a "complexity perspective"
is ever-present here, which is part of what makes it all worthwhile.
I withdraw any implication that we need more use of arcane complexity
science terminology, or that what we *do* have here isn't appreciated.
- Steve
On 2/6/17 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Dear all,
Steve Smith wrote:
I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I would like,
I will talk about tornado formation, a n y t I m e, Steve.
Seriously, I wonder if the fact that we have stopped talking about
complexity might have something to do with the state of play of that
field. I reached a point where I began to feel that complexity-talk
went on in some alternative universe that, without the initiation and
the golden key, I was never going to enter. You will remember, Steve,
that I worked for a couple of years, trying to make a translation
between that universe and mine, and was never able to manage it.
When the working vocabulary of a science is inaccessible to a
diligent, moderately intelligent, practitioner of neighboring
sciences, does that not limit the development of that science?
By the way, when I first came out here I tried to make contact with
SFI. At the time, I wrote up the result in a /satirical/ account,
which, to be honest, reeks of sour grapes. Still, in the present
context you might find it funny. See attached.
Omitted from this account was one life-changing exchange with Dr. X.
At some point, during Phase II of The Ritual Reception and Rejection,
I asked him, “Given that The Institute is such a charismatic place,
and given that you have no room, where do all the people go when you
reject them? There must be a lot of them around Santa Fe.”
I am everlastingly grateful for his response. He thought a very long
minute and then scribbled on a Posty and handed it to me. It said,
“Call Steve Guerin. FRIAM.”
The rest is history.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
A Smith
*Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 12:00 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] SFI to Trump: The dangers of simplicity in a
complex world
I appreciate FriAM, even though I don't attend Friday Congregation
very often, or even WedTech Congregation either! The *active*
voices here are familiar and even though I may have a lot of
different perspectives and opinions, I truly value what I hear here,
and more than anything I look forward to one of our *many* lurkers
chiming in.
I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I would like,
but I like knowing that there are many with strong Complexity
backgrounds engaged in the more sociopolitical discussions that seem
to dominate.
Since I feel a bit like Glen in his statement "Since I don't belong
anywhere, I obviously didn't belong there"... I'm enough used to
being an outsider or an interloper that I generally can slip into
alien situations and keep a low enough profile to not raise alarm or
cause disruption.
This forum, being asynchronous and as Gary points out, "easy to
delete" feels like a safe place FOR me to speak up above a hushed
whisper... so I value it as well.
SFx was intended to be a more open and welcoming environment to share
the wealth from... I think we did a moderately good job much of the
time, but still missed the mark in at least developing a sustainable
funding model.
- Steve
On 2/6/17 11:49 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway - FRIAM, both the
list and the actual gathering at the "mothership" of Santa Fe -
has always felt welcoming. It's the only list I've stayed with
since its inception. I don't know if there are any SFI lurkers
here, but there do seem to be a lot of people who "used to" have
some association with it rather than those who are actively
involved with it. I've no idea how much is due to a bit of
snobbery vs. just simply the fact that the list is open to such a
wide range of stuff that isn't interesting to folks interested
purely in complexity. I find it easy enough just to delete
messages when I get too overwhelmed, confident that they are
archived so I can eventually look them over.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:34 PM, glen ☣ <geprope...@gmail.com
<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
FWIW, I felt fairly unwelcome soon after I left to work in
our Agua Fria office (1997 maybe), perhaps since I was merely
a research technician rather than any sort of academic. Then
it got even worse when they expanded down the hill by
staffing a receptionist. I always managed to sneak past
without being grilled to badly ... but the concept was clear:
do you belong here? Since I don't belong anywhere, I
obviously didn't belong there. 8^)
On 02/05/2017 03:40 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> That makes sense but I just sat there quietly and listened. No
> self-aggrandizing questions. And then I left.
--
☣glen
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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