Russ, Your views on these matters are very similar to my own.
Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:11 AM Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote: > Hi Nick - finally took a look at your paper. I didn't read it to the nth > detail, but from what I understand, your scepticism about "ejective > anthropmorphism" (nice term by the way) stands on two legs: > > 1) What exactly is priveleged about introspection? > > 2) That the process of ejective anthropomorphism starts from an > identity between the target behaviour and the observers behaviour, > which is structy false. The example being given of a dog scratching at > a door to get in. > > In response, I would say there is plenty of privelege in > introspection. For example, proprioception is entirely priveleged - > that information is simply now available to external observers. > > In terms of the identity of target and observer behaviour, it doesn't > need to be identical, but it does need to be analogical. The most > important application of this skill is prediction of what other human > beings do. People aren't the same, but they are similar - and human > society functions because we can predict to some extent what other > people are likely to do. I believe this is why self-awareness evoved > in the first place. Something similar may have evolved in dogs, which > are social pack animals. We have also evolved the ability to "put > ourselves in somebody else's skin", taking into account the obvious > external differences. So we can imagine being a dog, and wanting to > get through a door, what would we do. We know we cannot stand up, and > turn the door knob, because we don't have hands, so what would we do, > given we only have paws. Scratching behaviour does seem a likely > behaviour then. That, then is analogical. > > So, I'm not exactly convinced :). > > Cheers > > On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 04:32:05PM -0600, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > Sorry Russ. It was in a hyperlink: > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti > > ve_anthropomorphism > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Russell Standish > > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 4:27 PM > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < > friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] God > > > > On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 09:59:37PM -0600, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > > > > > > > > > > > Hawking my wares again. I am sorry but SOMEBODY has to read this > > > crap. The argument of this paper is that the flow of inference is > > > actually in the other direction. We model our view of ourselves on our > > experience with others. > > > > > > > What paper? What argument? > > > > > > -- > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > > Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > > http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... > > ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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