My daughter was admitted to the University of Chicago and the University of Michigan and I never gave either university a gift.
Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 3:13 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> wrote: > Nick, > > I'm a Piketty fan, and he takes on this subject in "Capital" in a variety > of different ways. For instance, Harvard, Princeton and Yale are so well > endowed by alumni that they get a 6.2% return and they become what Piketty > calls "rentiers", people and institutions able to support themselves > through their capital income. The rentiers gifts get their kids in. And > this is just one example of the absence of equal opportunity in our most > prestigious universities. If we "allowed broader segments of the population > to have access to (these institutions), this would surely be the most > effective way of increasing wages at the low to medium end of the scale and > decreasing the upper decile's share of both wages and total income." > > I was excited to find, also, Piketty's pairing of climate change and > "improving educational access" as two of the most challenging issues facing > humanity. The knowledge that will be needed in the next future is hard to > imagine, but if we are to keep the peace as the systems continue to > collapse, we need to get everyone ready to cope. > > > > > Later in the book Piketty pairs climate change with the idea of improving > educational access as two of the greatest “challenges” to the human race. > Ameliorating schooling is even more important than fixing governmental > debt: “the more urgent need is to increase our educational capital” (568) > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 1:23 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Eric, >> >> >> >> A Marxist would say, I think, although I have barely ever known one, that >> every act of training is simultaneously an act of indoctrination and class >> reproduction. If the declaration of independence is correct, what an >> extraordinary coincidence it is that the children of wealthy well educated >> people tend to be wealthy and well educated! Well, some would say that >> that’s because ABILITY is inherited. But that precisely is racism, isn’t >> it? >> >> >> >> So if, as our colleagues are starting to assert, technical proficiency is >> an evanescent benefit, what precisely remains of a “good” education but >> indoctrination in class values and the inheritance of class benefits? >> This is NOT for me a rhetorical question, because I gave up on the >> technical proficiency justification (except perhaps for writing) before I >> even became a professor. So what WAS it I was conveying to my students >> all those years, if not the indoctrination of class values and the >> inheritance of class benefits? Inquiring Readers Want to Know! >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:02 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "certain codes of conduct" >> >> >> >> Come on Nick... outside new disciplines emerging, those who will change a >> discipline over the next 20 years are typically well embedded within the >> discipline now. That's kind of how cumulative knowledge construction works. >> But... to emphasize it a bit more bluntly.... The primary purpose of >> college isn't to reproduce the professoriate, or produce the next >> generation of innovators within the professorate: It is to provide a >> general set of skills (sometimes called the "hidden curriculum"), which >> provides a baseline of things a person with a college degree can reasonably >> be expected to be able to do. College is justified by the assertion that >> you can't really get those skills outside of trying to do something >> intellectual with some seriousness; what you are trying to be >> intellectually serious about doesn't matter nearly so much, though >> obviously some skills will be emphasized more in some areas. >> >> >> >> Most jobs most people want require "a college degree". They don't require >> a college degree in anything in particular. That makes sense, IF college >> degrees are reasonably well correlated with having some set of skills most >> general employers value in most of their employees. It generally helps to >> have employees who can read, write, and math at a certain level, who can >> present things in standard forms orally, graphically, and in writing. It >> generally helps to have employees who can integrate ideas and come up with >> solutions, who can balance various priorities, who can adapt to arbitrary >> requirements that a boss or company might impose. It generally helps to >> have employees who can work productively on team projects, as leaders or >> followers. Etc., etc. The less college degrees reliably indicate those >> skills, the less valuable they are (on average). >> >> >> >> There is a quirky college that revamped it's curriculum a few decades ago >> to focus on "8 Abilities": Communication, Problem Solving, Social >> Interaction, Effective Citizenship, Analysis, Valuing, Aesthetic >> Engagement, and Developing a Global Perspective. It looks like they've gone >> back a bit towards traditional majors, but still all classes, in all >> majors, have to explicitly focus on developing at least one of those >> abilities in the students. (https://www.alverno.edu/Undergraduate) >> >> >> >> Most colleges are not doing anything so dramatic, but many are still >> making great strides in helping students figure out skills that >> others arrive with, so they can at least start from a more even place. See >> examples here: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/04/book-argues-mentoring-programs-should-try-unveil-colleges-hidden-curriculum >> >> >> >> >> >> http://thehub.georgetown.domains/realhub/experience/mastering-the-hidden-curriculum-1-2/ >> >> >> >> https://college.lclark.edu/live/events/297173-the-hidden-curriculum >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:54 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, Eric, >> >> >> >> Thanks for laying this out. I think some of it’s wrong, but it’s clear >> and provocative. I apologize to non-academics on the list for my focus on >> academia. I suppose one might argue that the best thing that might happen >> to Massachusetts is the dismemberment of Harvard and the distribution of >> its buildings for housing and it’s endowment for income equalization. But >> I don’t think so. Not yet, any way. >> >> >> >> To the extent that psychology and White Psychology and Rich psychology >> and poor psychology are all the same, and if they all should be or will be >> the same 20 years from now as they are now, your analysis makes sense. >> But, while I would like to think that psychology is like physics in that >> regard, I think I have to admit that it isn’t. So, teaching everybody who >> comes to, say, the Harvard Psychology Department, the skills of >> contemporary (mostly white) psychologists, precludes the learning not only >> of what non-privileged psychologists know, given the drift of things >> demographically and ideologically, it precludes the learning of what >> Psychology will be in 20 years. >> >> >> >> I don’t know what the solution is. Every once in a while a student in my >> evolution classes would remonstrate with me for not giving equal time to >> biblical creation theories. I would say, in response, “Because everything >> I know tells me that they are wrong. Furthermore, I cannot teach what I do >> not know, and I don’t know those theories. I am not the person to be your >> teacher if that is what you want to learn.” Now of course, that’s a pretty >> lame response, but it has the marginal benefit of being honest. >> >> >> >> But what if we knew, for sure, that the country was going to be run by >> Baptists in 20 years. Under those conditions, wouldn’t my best response >> be, “I can’t; you’re right; I resign.” >> >> >> >> I am sure the metaphor is creepy in some way, but it’s the best I can >> come up with. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 3:02 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "certain codes of conduct" >> >> >> >> Eric, thank you for your reply. Forgive me for suggesting a larger >> systemic problem, connected for me to the problems in our democratic >> system, our global economic system, and our international governance >> system--and also ultimately related to the existential threat of the >> collapse of the living systems that nurture our species. >> >> >> >> The democracy and Constitution our founders gave us at the end of the >> 18th century has structural flaws we have tried to overcome. The global >> economic system that the victors of WWII gave us at Bretton Woods in 1944 >> has similar structural flaws that we have also tried (not very hard) to >> overcome. The United Nations that emerged a year later in 1945 to convene >> a new international order shares similar structural problems. There is a >> pattern here. At its core is domination and exclusivity. >> >> >> >> The present hesitant shifts in the old narratives--and relationships-- >> that created our major social, economic and political systems are the >> result of gladiators and dragon-slayers finally targeting the positive >> feedback loops that keep reinforcing historic institutional design errors. >> >> >> >> I'll stop here, because I'm even boring myself. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:49 PM Eric Charles < >> eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Nick, the "ire" is perfectly fine. I didn't need to couch my statement in >> that way, and doing so obviously opened me to Merle's response. >> >> >> >> Merle, >> >> I think the social criticism is generally valid, but as a critique of >> college in particular it is feeds a general confusion about what college >> should be about, which ultimately speeds the fall of the system it seeks to >> reform. >> >> >> >> One of the obvious legitimate functions of college is indoctrination into >> a profession. If you don't want to be indoctrinated into a profession that >> college indoctrinates people into, then college probably isn't for you. If >> you get out of college not-indoctrinated-into-a-profession, something has >> gone wrong. For example, if you want to get a degree in psychology, you >> need to learn to write in some reasonable semblance of APA style. That >> includes its own horribly arbitrary set of grammar rules, formatting and >> the like. It is screwed up, in some sense, but it isn't imperialist >> oppression aimed at minorities. Arbitrary norms are found in all >> professions, and conforming to them is part of being "professional". Also, >> if you got a degree in psychology, without anyone forcing you to learn how >> to approach problems, write reports, criticize articles, etc., in the >> manner that professional psychologists tend to do those things, something >> has gone wrong. If you want to think about psychology-related stuff in the >> way you already think about those things, then don't go to college. If you >> want to learn to think about them in the way the professional community >> does, then college might make senes. (Note, I'm *not *saying you have to >> *agree >> *with how the professional community does things, just that you should >> be able to replicate, with some reasonable accuracy, the standard >> professional approach.) Where you start from doesn't really matter; though >> the curricula *should *be more adaptive to the starting place of the >> various students, by the end you should be professional indoctrinated, >> that's the whole point. >> >> >> >> In addition, college functions to indoctrinate people into a certain part >> of society... or at least it used to. Because, traditionally, most college >> graduates don't get work in exactly the thing they studied, this "hidden >> curriculum" has often been more important than the obvious curriculum. >> College graduates should be able to read, write, and math at a certain >> level, generally think through problems at a certain level, be able to >> present ideas to an audience in spoken or written form, be able to adapt to >> arbitrary assignments with a certain level of comfort, be a team leader, be >> a pro-active follower, etc. Here again, colleges *should *be more >> adaptive to the starting place of the various students, but that doesn't >> mean their end point should be abandoned. Here you see big differences >> between colleges, based on what they are preparing you for. A college like >> Swathmore or Bucknell is preparing you to be able to do those things for >> different audiences than Oberlin or Penn State. If you are at a school that >> is well designed to prepare you for something you don't want to be prepared >> for... that's not imperialist oppression, that's your having made an >> unfortunate choice of where to go. >> >> >> >> Frankly, most colleges currently suck at those two goals, and most other >> functions you might want them to have. It is easy to find studies showing >> that lots of people graduate college without high school level reading, >> writing, and math abilities. It is also easy to find students who graduate >> with almost no indoctrination into the field of study they were purportedly >> pursuing. >> >> >> >> Under those conditions, it is not surprising that people view a college >> degree as largely symbolic marker, required for entry into the job market >> or some such nonsense. However, the solution shouldn't be to make college >> degrees even less indicative of having attained particular skills. The less >> a college degree indicates having a certain variety of skills, the less >> value is provided to employers to select based on the presence of a degree, >> and the less value it gives a college graduate to have a degree. Returning >> to the indoctrination thing, we can see the (potential) flaw in the >> criticism of the curriculum. It doesn't make a lot of sense to say, "I >> really want a degree from Rutgers, because employers value degrees from >> Rutgers, but I also think Rutgers should change its curriculum to not be so >> strict in only letting people graduate if they actually have the skills >> employers value." The value of the degree, particularly to a person trying >> to get out of a bad situation, is entirely based on its reliably indicating >> some set of skills, and the ability to write in a semi-formal manner is one >> of those skills (to return to the more narrow original context). >> >> >> >> If you formed a solid college curriculum around mastering skills other >> than those traditionally trained in college, that would be fine (and I >> think that is what Nick is struggling to get at). And if those skills were >> valued (economically, or merely for personal growth) then a degree from >> that college would be a reliable indicator of that specific valuable >> achievement. But that is very different than allowing students to get >> through college with whatever skills they arrived with, just because you >> are afraid that enforcing *any *strict requirements might make you an >> imperialist monster. The former creates a marketplace for students to >> choose from, while the latter just guarantees that college degrees continue >> to become less and less valuable, particularly to the people who most seek >> to benefit by getting them. >> >> >> (Sorry, that ended up longer than intended.... but it's late... I don't >> think I can get it tighter right now... and your question deserves a >> reply.) >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:21 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> And why, O Eric of a deep understanding, are you not a fan? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 8:17 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Clearly the implicit bias is that all of these reading requirements were >> written by White men. In an attempt to redress this problem I have noticed >> lately that the NY Times book review seems to be bending over backwards to >> review books written by women of color. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:03 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> I'm trying to remember my freshman English class. Every other Friday we >> had to submit a five hundred word essay on the class readings. On alternate >> Fridays we had to write an in-class paragraph or two on those readings. >> The readings included the following: >> >> >> >> Catcher in the Rye by Salinger >> >> Victory by Conrad >> >> The Republic by Plato >> >> All the King's Men by Warren >> >> Brave New World by Huxley >> >> >> >> Numerous essays on personal integrity by various authors. >> >> >> >> I don't see that any of those had to do with unconscious racism or >> implicit bias unless the personal integrity essays did. I think I had to >> read The Invisible Man by Ellison but that may have been in a later year in >> a political science or US history class at Berkeley. >> >> >> >> All this was 54 years ago. >> >> >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > > > -- > Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > Center for Emergent Diplomacy > emergentdiplomacy.org > Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > mobile: (303) 859-5609 > skype: merle.lelfkoff2 > twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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