Frank, I never gave a gift to M.I.T. either, and my youngest son was not accepted. He went on to graduate from UCSD with a 4.0 average and sold the GIS company he co-founded to Kodak when he was 23 years old. I have always assumed he was turned down because he went to a public high school in the South and came from a middle class background.
My oldest son got into grad school at the U. of Chicago because a friend of mine who was a Chicago alum and well-known politician wrote a letter. Milton ("There's no such thing as a free lunch") Friedman adopted my son as a protage and turned him away from righteous pursuit. I've never forgiven that wicked business school. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 3:05 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> wrote: > Of course not, Frank, but evidently, many do. > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 2:46 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> My daughter was admitted to the University of Chicago and the University >> of Michigan and I never gave either university a gift. >> >> Frank >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 3:13 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Nick, >>> >>> I'm a Piketty fan, and he takes on this subject in "Capital" in a >>> variety of different ways. For instance, Harvard, Princeton and Yale are >>> so well endowed by alumni that they get a 6.2% return and they become what >>> Piketty calls "rentiers", people and institutions able to support >>> themselves through their capital income. The rentiers gifts get their kids >>> in. And this is just one example of the absence of equal opportunity in our >>> most prestigious universities. If we "allowed broader segments of the >>> population to have access to (these institutions), this would surely be the >>> most effective way of increasing wages at the low to medium end of the >>> scale and decreasing the upper decile's share of both wages and total >>> income." >>> >>> I was excited to find, also, Piketty's pairing of climate change and >>> "improving educational access" as two of the most challenging issues facing >>> humanity. The knowledge that will be needed in the next future is hard to >>> imagine, but if we are to keep the peace as the systems continue to >>> collapse, we need to get everyone ready to cope. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Later in the book Piketty pairs climate change with the idea of >>> improving educational access as two of the greatest “challenges” to the >>> human race. Ameliorating schooling is even more important than fixing >>> governmental debt: “the more urgent need is to increase our educational >>> capital” (568) >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 1:23 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Eric, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A Marxist would say, I think, although I have barely ever known one, >>>> that every act of training is simultaneously an act of indoctrination and >>>> class reproduction. If the declaration of independence is correct, what an >>>> extraordinary coincidence it is that the children of wealthy well educated >>>> people tend to be wealthy and well educated! Well, some would say that >>>> that’s because ABILITY is inherited. But that precisely is racism, isn’t >>>> it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So if, as our colleagues are starting to assert, technical proficiency >>>> is an evanescent benefit, what precisely remains of a “good” education but >>>> indoctrination in class values and the inheritance of class benefits? >>>> This is NOT for me a rhetorical question, because I gave up on the >>>> technical proficiency justification (except perhaps for writing) before I >>>> even became a professor. So what WAS it I was conveying to my students >>>> all those years, if not the indoctrination of class values and the >>>> inheritance of class benefits? Inquiring Readers Want to Know! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> Nicholas Thompson >>>> >>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>>> >>>> Clark University >>>> >>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:02 PM >>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "certain codes of conduct" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Come on Nick... outside new disciplines emerging, those who will change >>>> a discipline over the next 20 years are typically well embedded within the >>>> discipline now. That's kind of how cumulative knowledge construction works. >>>> But... to emphasize it a bit more bluntly.... The primary purpose of >>>> college isn't to reproduce the professoriate, or produce the next >>>> generation of innovators within the professorate: It is to provide a >>>> general set of skills (sometimes called the "hidden curriculum"), which >>>> provides a baseline of things a person with a college degree can reasonably >>>> be expected to be able to do. College is justified by the assertion that >>>> you can't really get those skills outside of trying to do something >>>> intellectual with some seriousness; what you are trying to be >>>> intellectually serious about doesn't matter nearly so much, though >>>> obviously some skills will be emphasized more in some areas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Most jobs most people want require "a college degree". They don't >>>> require a college degree in anything in particular. That makes sense, IF >>>> college degrees are reasonably well correlated with having some set of >>>> skills most general employers value in most of their employees. It >>>> generally helps to have employees who can read, write, and math at a >>>> certain level, who can present things in standard forms orally, >>>> graphically, and in writing. It generally helps to have employees who can >>>> integrate ideas and come up with solutions, who can balance various >>>> priorities, who can adapt to arbitrary requirements that a boss or company >>>> might impose. It generally helps to have employees who can work >>>> productively on team projects, as leaders or followers. Etc., etc. The less >>>> college degrees reliably indicate those skills, the less valuable they are >>>> (on average). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There is a quirky college that revamped it's curriculum a few decades >>>> ago to focus on "8 Abilities": Communication, Problem Solving, Social >>>> Interaction, Effective Citizenship, Analysis, Valuing, Aesthetic >>>> Engagement, and Developing a Global Perspective. It looks like they've gone >>>> back a bit towards traditional majors, but still all classes, in all >>>> majors, have to explicitly focus on developing at least one of those >>>> abilities in the students. (https://www.alverno.edu/Undergraduate) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Most colleges are not doing anything so dramatic, but many are still >>>> making great strides in helping students figure out skills that >>>> others arrive with, so they can at least start from a more even place. See >>>> examples here: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/04/book-argues-mentoring-programs-should-try-unveil-colleges-hidden-curriculum >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://thehub.georgetown.domains/realhub/experience/mastering-the-hidden-curriculum-1-2/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://college.lclark.edu/live/events/297173-the-hidden-curriculum >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:54 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, Eric, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for laying this out. I think some of it’s wrong, but it’s clear >>>> and provocative. I apologize to non-academics on the list for my focus on >>>> academia. I suppose one might argue that the best thing that might happen >>>> to Massachusetts is the dismemberment of Harvard and the distribution of >>>> its buildings for housing and it’s endowment for income equalization. But >>>> I don’t think so. Not yet, any way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To the extent that psychology and White Psychology and Rich psychology >>>> and poor psychology are all the same, and if they all should be or will be >>>> the same 20 years from now as they are now, your analysis makes sense. >>>> But, while I would like to think that psychology is like physics in that >>>> regard, I think I have to admit that it isn’t. So, teaching everybody who >>>> comes to, say, the Harvard Psychology Department, the skills of >>>> contemporary (mostly white) psychologists, precludes the learning not only >>>> of what non-privileged psychologists know, given the drift of things >>>> demographically and ideologically, it precludes the learning of what >>>> Psychology will be in 20 years. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don’t know what the solution is. Every once in a while a student in >>>> my evolution classes would remonstrate with me for not giving equal time to >>>> biblical creation theories. I would say, in response, “Because everything >>>> I know tells me that they are wrong. Furthermore, I cannot teach what I do >>>> not know, and I don’t know those theories. I am not the person to be your >>>> teacher if that is what you want to learn.” Now of course, that’s a pretty >>>> lame response, but it has the marginal benefit of being honest. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> But what if we knew, for sure, that the country was going to be run by >>>> Baptists in 20 years. Under those conditions, wouldn’t my best response >>>> be, “I can’t; you’re right; I resign.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am sure the metaphor is creepy in some way, but it’s the best I can >>>> come up with. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nicholas Thompson >>>> >>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>>> >>>> Clark University >>>> >>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 3:02 PM >>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "certain codes of conduct" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Eric, thank you for your reply. Forgive me for suggesting a larger >>>> systemic problem, connected for me to the problems in our democratic >>>> system, our global economic system, and our international governance >>>> system--and also ultimately related to the existential threat of the >>>> collapse of the living systems that nurture our species. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The democracy and Constitution our founders gave us at the end of the >>>> 18th century has structural flaws we have tried to overcome. The global >>>> economic system that the victors of WWII gave us at Bretton Woods in 1944 >>>> has similar structural flaws that we have also tried (not very hard) to >>>> overcome. The United Nations that emerged a year later in 1945 to convene >>>> a new international order shares similar structural problems. There is a >>>> pattern here. At its core is domination and exclusivity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The present hesitant shifts in the old narratives--and relationships-- >>>> that created our major social, economic and political systems are the >>>> result of gladiators and dragon-slayers finally targeting the positive >>>> feedback loops that keep reinforcing historic institutional design errors. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'll stop here, because I'm even boring myself. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:49 PM Eric Charles < >>>> eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Nick, the "ire" is perfectly fine. I didn't need to couch my statement >>>> in that way, and doing so obviously opened me to Merle's response. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Merle, >>>> >>>> I think the social criticism is generally valid, but as a critique of >>>> college in particular it is feeds a general confusion about what college >>>> should be about, which ultimately speeds the fall of the system it seeks to >>>> reform. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> One of the obvious legitimate functions of college is indoctrination >>>> into a profession. If you don't want to be indoctrinated into a profession >>>> that college indoctrinates people into, then college probably isn't for >>>> you. If you get out of college not-indoctrinated-into-a-profession, >>>> something has gone wrong. For example, if you want to get a degree in >>>> psychology, you need to learn to write in some reasonable semblance of APA >>>> style. That includes its own horribly arbitrary set of grammar rules, >>>> formatting and the like. It is screwed up, in some sense, but it isn't >>>> imperialist oppression aimed at minorities. Arbitrary norms are found in >>>> all professions, and conforming to them is part of being "professional". >>>> Also, if you got a degree in psychology, without anyone forcing you to >>>> learn how to approach problems, write reports, criticize articles, etc., in >>>> the manner that professional psychologists tend to do those things, >>>> something has gone wrong. If you want to think about psychology-related >>>> stuff in the way you already think about those things, then don't go to >>>> college. If you want to learn to think about them in the way the >>>> professional community does, then college might make senes. (Note, I'm *not >>>> *saying you have to *agree *with how the professional community does >>>> things, just that you should be able to replicate, with some reasonable >>>> accuracy, the standard professional approach.) Where you start from doesn't >>>> really matter; though the curricula *should *be more adaptive to the >>>> starting place of the various students, by the end you should be >>>> professional indoctrinated, that's the whole point. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In addition, college functions to indoctrinate people into a certain >>>> part of society... or at least it used to. Because, traditionally, most >>>> college graduates don't get work in exactly the thing they studied, this >>>> "hidden curriculum" has often been more important than the obvious >>>> curriculum. College graduates should be able to read, write, and math at a >>>> certain level, generally think through problems at a certain level, be able >>>> to present ideas to an audience in spoken or written form, be able to adapt >>>> to arbitrary assignments with a certain level of comfort, be a team leader, >>>> be a pro-active follower, etc. Here again, colleges *should *be more >>>> adaptive to the starting place of the various students, but that doesn't >>>> mean their end point should be abandoned. Here you see big differences >>>> between colleges, based on what they are preparing you for. A college like >>>> Swathmore or Bucknell is preparing you to be able to do those things for >>>> different audiences than Oberlin or Penn State. If you are at a school that >>>> is well designed to prepare you for something you don't want to be prepared >>>> for... that's not imperialist oppression, that's your having made an >>>> unfortunate choice of where to go. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frankly, most colleges currently suck at those two goals, and most >>>> other functions you might want them to have. It is easy to find studies >>>> showing that lots of people graduate college without high school level >>>> reading, writing, and math abilities. It is also easy to find students who >>>> graduate with almost no indoctrination into the field of study they were >>>> purportedly pursuing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Under those conditions, it is not surprising that people view a college >>>> degree as largely symbolic marker, required for entry into the job market >>>> or some such nonsense. However, the solution shouldn't be to make college >>>> degrees even less indicative of having attained particular skills. The less >>>> a college degree indicates having a certain variety of skills, the less >>>> value is provided to employers to select based on the presence of a degree, >>>> and the less value it gives a college graduate to have a degree. Returning >>>> to the indoctrination thing, we can see the (potential) flaw in the >>>> criticism of the curriculum. It doesn't make a lot of sense to say, "I >>>> really want a degree from Rutgers, because employers value degrees from >>>> Rutgers, but I also think Rutgers should change its curriculum to not be so >>>> strict in only letting people graduate if they actually have the skills >>>> employers value." The value of the degree, particularly to a person trying >>>> to get out of a bad situation, is entirely based on its reliably indicating >>>> some set of skills, and the ability to write in a semi-formal manner is one >>>> of those skills (to return to the more narrow original context). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you formed a solid college curriculum around mastering skills other >>>> than those traditionally trained in college, that would be fine (and I >>>> think that is what Nick is struggling to get at). And if those skills were >>>> valued (economically, or merely for personal growth) then a degree from >>>> that college would be a reliable indicator of that specific valuable >>>> achievement. But that is very different than allowing students to get >>>> through college with whatever skills they arrived with, just because you >>>> are afraid that enforcing *any *strict requirements might make you an >>>> imperialist monster. The former creates a marketplace for students to >>>> choose from, while the latter just guarantees that college degrees continue >>>> to become less and less valuable, particularly to the people who most seek >>>> to benefit by getting them. >>>> >>>> >>>> (Sorry, that ended up longer than intended.... but it's late... I don't >>>> think I can get it tighter right now... and your question deserves a >>>> reply.) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:21 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> And why, O Eric of a deep understanding, are you not a fan? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 8:17 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Clearly the implicit bias is that all of these reading requirements >>>> were written by White men. In an attempt to redress this problem I have >>>> noticed lately that the NY Times book review seems to be bending over >>>> backwards to review books written by women of color. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:03 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm trying to remember my freshman English class. Every other Friday >>>> we had to submit a five hundred word essay on the class readings. On >>>> alternate Fridays we had to write an in-class paragraph or two on those >>>> readings. The readings included the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Catcher in the Rye by Salinger >>>> >>>> Victory by Conrad >>>> >>>> The Republic by Plato >>>> >>>> All the King's Men by Warren >>>> >>>> Brave New World by Huxley >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Numerous essays on personal integrity by various authors. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't see that any of those had to do with unconscious racism or >>>> implicit bias unless the personal integrity essays did. I think I had to >>>> read The Invisible Man by Ellison but that may have been in a later year in >>>> a political science or US history class at Berkeley. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> All this was 54 years ago. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Frank C. Wimberly >>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>>> >>>> 505 670-9918 >>>> Santa Fe, NM >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>>> >>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>>> >>>> >>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>>> >>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>>> >>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>>> >>>> >>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>>> >>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>>> >>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>>> >>>> >>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>>> >>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>> >>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > > > -- > Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > Center for Emergent Diplomacy > emergentdiplomacy.org > Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > mobile: (303) 859-5609 > skype: merle.lelfkoff2 > twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/