Frank, do you have some pointers on the MMWR? Thanks, Tom On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 7:35 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It has become known today that the MMWR has been altered for political > reasons. At least they got caught. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > >> It is the reactive grievance culture that I think needs to be >> attenuated. Run some diagnostics, analyze, reflect. Or at least find >> someone new to talk to. Push some different information through that >> soggy wetware. Appreciate people that are trying to do their job. >> Consider the possibility that individuals (and that means you, Joe Moron) >> don't really matter in the big scheme of things. And so on. If nothing >> else just STFU for a minute, would you? I can totally see the Rick Gates >> type people: Everyone is guilty and unworthy, so the only thing left to do >> grab and handful of cash and walk away. >> >> How many dozens of times have I been told to lower the dimensionality of >> what I am trying to communicate up the management chain? If managers can't >> grasp a complicated story, the worker bees and especially the Trumper types >> certainly won't get it either. In my mind democracy is more about >> defining what is worthy about civilization and culture and finding basic >> some basic consensus about who we want to be. If that isn't possible, >> then let's take off the gloves and get to it, you know? The business of >> running things for the most part has to be delegated, just like almost >> every service and product we use is delegated to others. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith >> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:17 PM >> To: friam@redfish.com >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >> >> Without picking directly on Dave, or using him as a proxy for or maybe >> just a whipping boy for the folks who continue to imagine that having >> Donald Trump and his gang of openly sycophantic and corrupt supporters in >> his cabinet and in Congress is actually a *healthy* thing for this country, >> I think the question of whether humans in general and US Citizens at this >> time, are capable of anything outside of an A) Mobocracy; or B) Oligarchy >> thinly disguised as a Representative Democracy. >> >> I've been guilty of being a very poor voter-citizen by one standard or >> another and order 1/3 or more of my fellow citizens probably have a story >> where I am a total moron/idiot because I don't agree with one or more of >> their trigger-issues. >> >> And talk about persuasion/governance-by-fear: As a registered DTR >> (declines to respond == independent) voter I've been getting a barrage of >> nasty garbage mail about the presidential election from the Republican >> Party of New Mexico... maybe they don't waste the postage on registered >> Democrats? Mary doesn't get these. You can imagine the crap they insert >> into their imagery and verbage, but if I didn't have any other source of >> information (or more to the point, primary evidence of Biden and his >> allies' record and public demeanor), I'd think he (and >> they) are everything just short of child molesters who are in the streets >> themselves beating up cops with their own night-sticks, and that the fires >> in Oregon are being started by them personally in Portland and blowing the >> embers out into the forests (that Republicans would rake into safety if >> Democrats would let them). The photos are perspective foreshortened and >> blue caste to make you feel like the figures shown (e.g. Biden, Bernie, >> Kamala, AOC) are vampires looming over you the way Trump stalked and loomed >> over Clinton at the debates. >> >> I don't know *any* Republicans who are afraid of COVID... well... except >> for my hypochondriac sister and family who seem to have slowly come around >> to have a perspective that aligns pretty well with that of the Dems, yet >> very well may still help (try to) Vote Donald and his cronies right back >> into power (just because?). Sturgis the community was only 60% against >> holding the annual HD/Trump rally there and only about 10-20% of the usual >> attendees declined this year. That doesn't sound like fear to me. I >> don't hear Biden's campaign chanting "Lock them up!" even though it seems >> likely that The entire Trump family , his staff (present and deprecated) >> and some of his cabinet might well be subject to criminal charges without >> the current obfuscation, misdirection, and direct obstruction the >> (implied/implicit?) power of the office of the President seems to allow >> for, hiding the evidence. >> >> I *do* think that a solid 51% up to 60% of the population *are* very >> scared at the quality and quantity of damage to the "America" he promised >> to make "Great Again" if he gets another 4 years... The Trumpsters like >> to throw out "Trump Derangement Syndrome" left and right (and Left and >> Right) in the attempt to characterize anyone who is offended by anything >> (much less everything) Trump does. >> >> My enemy's enemies are not my friends, but it IS heartening to see the >> significant backlash against Trumpism by many non-liberal, non-Democrat >> factions. The Lincoln Project might be the most well organized/funded. >> THEY are throwing fear and loathing at Trump... and I"m sure plenty of >> LIberals/Democrats love seeing that... and I suppose I'm just glad I don't >> have to get my own hands dirty (possibly?) overstating Trumps outrageous >> behaviour. >> >> The next 2 months (and 2.5 beyond) will surely prove to be interesting... >> >> - Steve >> >> On 9/12/20 12:42 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> > When the populace won't tolerate this the populace won't get this. >> But mostly people are morons. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West >> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:33 AM >> > To: friam@redfish.com >> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >> > >> > Nothing in my post was intended to malign Fauci, nor attack his >> credibility. I did attempt to call him on a specific mistake (one he may >> have later corrected). He is not among the "powers that be." >> > >> > I totally stand by my accusation that "governance by fear" seems to >> have become the default for setting policy — fear of pornography to >> justify repressive Web policies; fear of drugs to justify repressive >> regulation on use; fear of crime to justify militarization of police; fear >> of WMD to justify Iraq; fear of terror to justify TSA, fear of extinction >> to justify carbon regulation; fear of COVID to justify lock down. >> > >> > I have a real problem with this trend. One, it denigrates and devalues >> the populace as too dumb to understand the real issues, the messiness of >> incomplete but increasing knowledge, and the complexity and provisionality >> of solutions; two, any error, however minor, has the power to call into >> question the whole; and three it is ultimately self-defeating. >> > >> > davew >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 10:42 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote: >> >> Never ascribe malice (or governance by fear) when incompetence will >> >> suffice. -- paraphrased from some pithy archetype somewhere sometime. >> >> >> >> I was totally with you until the last 2 paragraphs, though I haven't >> >> checked your facts. In my posts about "credibility", I tried to lay >> >> out the idea that someone like Fauci is NOT properly labeled >> >> [in]credible because of any single act/statement or even the truth >> >> status of one or several acts/statements. Credibility comes from >> >> consistent *care*, including revisiting things later and making >> >> attempts to abut or correct previous acts/statements. >> >> >> >> Fauci shows such care. Therefore, Fauci is credible, even if he's made >> mistakes. >> >> >> >> When you talk about ruling through fear, the real culprit is, as >> >> EricS pointed out, the political pressure on people like Fauci to >> >> render opinions *aligned* with some party line. To accuse Fauci of >> >> such in light of the recent news from Woodward's book and the >> >> pressure on CDC rank and file is disinformation. You're focus on the >> >> victim makes your post incredible disinformation, even if (or >> >> especially if) the first part of your post is factual. It's a typical >> >> abuse of facts to foster a false narrative. >> >> >> >> But it's also important to realize we're all, always, susceptible to >> >> such faulty reasoning. Attempts to be diligent and correct in such is >> >> the source of credibility. I was once accused of being a spammer >> >> because I posted too much, even though my accuser admitted the >> >> *content* of my posts were on topic and not spam, the very volume was >> >> offensive to him. This is yet another example of normal people's >> >> small appetite for verbosity. Pithiness, pseudo-profound bullshit, >> >> and false narratives are all aspects of the same beast. It's >> >> impossible to harden ourselves to such risk without holing up in our >> >> echo-chamber dungeons, surrounded by others who've "jumped over the >> >> bar" to be included in our in-group. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/12/20 7:44 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> >>> Sloppy reporting, and sloppy pronouncements — yes, you Dr. Fauci — >> have contaminated the discussion about COVID and appropriate responses. >> Specifically with regard equating or improperly substituting IFR with CFR. >> >>> >> >>> IFR = infection fatality rate >> >>> CFR = case fatality rate >> >>> >> >>> A "case"requires symptoms. >> >>> >> >>> Seasonal flu has an IFR of 0.1% and a CFR of 2-3% >> >>> >> >>> COVID has an IFR of 1.0% [initially WHO and CDC stated a higher >> >>> percent] and a CFR of 2-3% >> >>> >> >>> For whatever reason, Dr Fauci and other official statements have >> compared COVID's CFR to the flu's IFR to assert the "deadliness" of the >> disease and to justify draconian measures. >> >>> >> >>> Naysayers, compare CFR to CFR to assert that COVID is no more deadly >> than the flu. They are correct. With the "TRUTH" on their side, they rail >> against the lock down. >> >>> >> >>> There is a justification for social distancing and masks in the >> difference between IFR and IFR coupled with the higher infection rate of >> COVID and the flu( a lot of flu immunity exists), plus the "infectious >> phase" of 12 days (COVID) instead of 2 (flu). >> >>> >> >>> In my opinion the "powers that be" have such a low opinion of the >> average intelligence of the populace that they misrepresent the data in >> order to scare the crap out of people in order to get them to comply with >> directives instead of making the reasonable and correct, but more nuanced >> and complicated, factual argument for their policies. >> >>> >> >>> Governance by fear seems to be standard operating procedure these >> days. 9-11 yielded the TSA abomination (expensive, ineffective and >> annoying). Can't wait to see what COVID inflicts — especially with the talk >> of "forced vaccinations" I have heard bandied about. >> >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >> >> GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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