Tkx. On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 10:03 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom > > https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.html > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 10:00 PM Tom Johnson <t...@jtjohnson.com> wrote: > >> Frank, do you have some pointers on the MMWR? >> Thanks, Tom >> >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 7:35 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> It has become known today that the MMWR has been altered for political >>> reasons. At least they got caught. >>> >>> --- >>> Frank C. Wimberly >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>> >>> 505 670-9918 >>> Santa Fe, NM >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> It is the reactive grievance culture that I think needs to be >>>> attenuated. Run some diagnostics, analyze, reflect. Or at least find >>>> someone new to talk to. Push some different information through that >>>> soggy wetware. Appreciate people that are trying to do their job. >>>> Consider the possibility that individuals (and that means you, Joe Moron) >>>> don't really matter in the big scheme of things. And so on. If nothing >>>> else just STFU for a minute, would you? I can totally see the Rick Gates >>>> type people: Everyone is guilty and unworthy, so the only thing left to do >>>> grab and handful of cash and walk away. >>>> >>>> How many dozens of times have I been told to lower the dimensionality >>>> of what I am trying to communicate up the management chain? If managers >>>> can't grasp a complicated story, the worker bees and especially the Trumper >>>> types certainly won't get it either. In my mind democracy is more about >>>> defining what is worthy about civilization and culture and finding basic >>>> some basic consensus about who we want to be. If that isn't possible, >>>> then let's take off the gloves and get to it, you know? The business of >>>> running things for the most part has to be delegated, just like almost >>>> every service and product we use is delegated to others. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:17 PM >>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>>> >>>> Without picking directly on Dave, or using him as a proxy for or maybe >>>> just a whipping boy for the folks who continue to imagine that having >>>> Donald Trump and his gang of openly sycophantic and corrupt supporters in >>>> his cabinet and in Congress is actually a *healthy* thing for this country, >>>> I think the question of whether humans in general and US Citizens at this >>>> time, are capable of anything outside of an A) Mobocracy; or B) Oligarchy >>>> thinly disguised as a Representative Democracy. >>>> >>>> I've been guilty of being a very poor voter-citizen by one standard or >>>> another and order 1/3 or more of my fellow citizens probably have a story >>>> where I am a total moron/idiot because I don't agree with one or more of >>>> their trigger-issues. >>>> >>>> And talk about persuasion/governance-by-fear: As a registered DTR >>>> (declines to respond == independent) voter I've been getting a barrage of >>>> nasty garbage mail about the presidential election from the Republican >>>> Party of New Mexico... maybe they don't waste the postage on registered >>>> Democrats? Mary doesn't get these. You can imagine the crap they insert >>>> into their imagery and verbage, but if I didn't have any other source of >>>> information (or more to the point, primary evidence of Biden and his >>>> allies' record and public demeanor), I'd think he (and >>>> they) are everything just short of child molesters who are in the >>>> streets themselves beating up cops with their own night-sticks, and that >>>> the fires in Oregon are being started by them personally in Portland and >>>> blowing the embers out into the forests (that Republicans would rake into >>>> safety if Democrats would let them). The photos are perspective >>>> foreshortened and blue caste to make you feel like the figures shown (e.g. >>>> Biden, Bernie, Kamala, AOC) are vampires looming over you the way Trump >>>> stalked and loomed over Clinton at the debates. >>>> >>>> I don't know *any* Republicans who are afraid of COVID... well... >>>> except for my hypochondriac sister and family who seem to have slowly come >>>> around to have a perspective that aligns pretty well with that of the Dems, >>>> yet very well may still help (try to) Vote Donald and his cronies right >>>> back into power (just because?). Sturgis the community was only 60% >>>> against holding the annual HD/Trump rally there and only about 10-20% of >>>> the usual attendees declined this year. That doesn't sound like fear to >>>> me. I don't hear Biden's campaign chanting "Lock them up!" even though it >>>> seems likely that The entire Trump family , his staff (present and >>>> deprecated) and some of his cabinet might well be subject to criminal >>>> charges without the current obfuscation, misdirection, and direct >>>> obstruction the (implied/implicit?) power of the office of the President >>>> seems to allow for, hiding the evidence. >>>> >>>> I *do* think that a solid 51% up to 60% of the population *are* very >>>> scared at the quality and quantity of damage to the "America" he promised >>>> to make "Great Again" if he gets another 4 years... The Trumpsters like >>>> to throw out "Trump Derangement Syndrome" left and right (and Left and >>>> Right) in the attempt to characterize anyone who is offended by anything >>>> (much less everything) Trump does. >>>> >>>> My enemy's enemies are not my friends, but it IS heartening to see the >>>> significant backlash against Trumpism by many non-liberal, non-Democrat >>>> factions. The Lincoln Project might be the most well organized/funded. >>>> THEY are throwing fear and loathing at Trump... and I"m sure plenty of >>>> LIberals/Democrats love seeing that... and I suppose I'm just glad I don't >>>> have to get my own hands dirty (possibly?) overstating Trumps outrageous >>>> behaviour. >>>> >>>> The next 2 months (and 2.5 beyond) will surely prove to be >>>> interesting... >>>> >>>> - Steve >>>> >>>> On 9/12/20 12:42 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> > When the populace won't tolerate this the populace won't get this. >>>> But mostly people are morons. >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West >>>> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:33 AM >>>> > To: friam@redfish.com >>>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>>> > >>>> > Nothing in my post was intended to malign Fauci, nor attack his >>>> credibility. I did attempt to call him on a specific mistake (one he may >>>> have later corrected). He is not among the "powers that be." >>>> > >>>> > I totally stand by my accusation that "governance by fear" seems to >>>> have become the default for setting policy — fear of pornography to >>>> justify repressive Web policies; fear of drugs to justify repressive >>>> regulation on use; fear of crime to justify militarization of police; fear >>>> of WMD to justify Iraq; fear of terror to justify TSA, fear of extinction >>>> to justify carbon regulation; fear of COVID to justify lock down. >>>> > >>>> > I have a real problem with this trend. One, it denigrates and >>>> devalues the populace as too dumb to understand the real issues, the >>>> messiness of incomplete but increasing knowledge, and the complexity and >>>> provisionality of solutions; two, any error, however minor, has the power >>>> to call into question the whole; and three it is ultimately self-defeating. >>>> > >>>> > davew >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 10:42 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote: >>>> >> Never ascribe malice (or governance by fear) when incompetence will >>>> >> suffice. -- paraphrased from some pithy archetype somewhere sometime. >>>> >> >>>> >> I was totally with you until the last 2 paragraphs, though I haven't >>>> >> checked your facts. In my posts about "credibility", I tried to lay >>>> >> out the idea that someone like Fauci is NOT properly labeled >>>> >> [in]credible because of any single act/statement or even the truth >>>> >> status of one or several acts/statements. Credibility comes from >>>> >> consistent *care*, including revisiting things later and making >>>> >> attempts to abut or correct previous acts/statements. >>>> >> >>>> >> Fauci shows such care. Therefore, Fauci is credible, even if he's >>>> made mistakes. >>>> >> >>>> >> When you talk about ruling through fear, the real culprit is, as >>>> >> EricS pointed out, the political pressure on people like Fauci to >>>> >> render opinions *aligned* with some party line. To accuse Fauci of >>>> >> such in light of the recent news from Woodward's book and the >>>> >> pressure on CDC rank and file is disinformation. You're focus on the >>>> >> victim makes your post incredible disinformation, even if (or >>>> >> especially if) the first part of your post is factual. It's a >>>> typical >>>> >> abuse of facts to foster a false narrative. >>>> >> >>>> >> But it's also important to realize we're all, always, susceptible to >>>> >> such faulty reasoning. Attempts to be diligent and correct in such >>>> is >>>> >> the source of credibility. I was once accused of being a spammer >>>> >> because I posted too much, even though my accuser admitted the >>>> >> *content* of my posts were on topic and not spam, the very volume >>>> was >>>> >> offensive to him. This is yet another example of normal people's >>>> >> small appetite for verbosity. Pithiness, pseudo-profound bullshit, >>>> >> and false narratives are all aspects of the same beast. It's >>>> >> impossible to harden ourselves to such risk without holing up in our >>>> >> echo-chamber dungeons, surrounded by others who've "jumped over the >>>> >> bar" to be included in our in-group. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 9/12/20 7:44 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>>> >>> Sloppy reporting, and sloppy pronouncements — yes, you Dr. Fauci — >>>> have contaminated the discussion about COVID and appropriate responses. >>>> Specifically with regard equating or improperly substituting IFR with CFR. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> IFR = infection fatality rate >>>> >>> CFR = case fatality rate >>>> >>> >>>> >>> A "case"requires symptoms. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Seasonal flu has an IFR of 0.1% and a CFR of 2-3% >>>> >>> >>>> >>> COVID has an IFR of 1.0% [initially WHO and CDC stated a higher >>>> >>> percent] and a CFR of 2-3% >>>> >>> >>>> >>> For whatever reason, Dr Fauci and other official statements have >>>> compared COVID's CFR to the flu's IFR to assert the "deadliness" of the >>>> disease and to justify draconian measures. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Naysayers, compare CFR to CFR to assert that COVID is no more >>>> deadly than the flu. They are correct. With the "TRUTH" on their side, they >>>> rail against the lock down. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> There is a justification for social distancing and masks in the >>>> difference between IFR and IFR coupled with the higher infection rate of >>>> COVID and the flu( a lot of flu immunity exists), plus the "infectious >>>> phase" of 12 days (COVID) instead of 2 (flu). >>>> >>> >>>> >>> In my opinion the "powers that be" have such a low opinion of the >>>> average intelligence of the populace that they misrepresent the data in >>>> order to scare the crap out of people in order to get them to comply with >>>> directives instead of making the reasonable and correct, but more nuanced >>>> and complicated, factual argument for their policies. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Governance by fear seems to be standard operating procedure these >>>> days. 9-11 yielded the TSA abomination (expensive, ineffective and >>>> annoying). Can't wait to see what COVID inflicts — especially with the talk >>>> of "forced vaccinations" I have heard bandied about. >>>> >> >>>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>> >> GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >> >>>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > > > -- > Frank Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > 505 670-9918 > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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