Would I pass the turing test if I could, by my emails, convince you that I was Dave?
Or is that just the dave Test. Would I pass the Turing test if I could convince you that I was Turing? Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men! n Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] aversive learning I’m already convinced Dave is bot. I know I am. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2021/08/dead-internet-theory-wrong-but-feels-true/619937/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 8:23 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] aversive learning Culture is online now, didn’t you hear? From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 8:12 AM To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] aversive learning Glen quoted BC Smith: "What does all this mean in the case of AIs and computer systems generally? Perhaps at least this: that it is hard to see how synthetic systems could be trained in the ways of judgment except by gradually, incrementally, and systematically enmeshed in normative practices that engage with the world and that involve thick engagement with teachers ('elders'), who can steadily develop and inculcate not just 'moral sensibility' but also intellectual appreciation of intentional commitment to the world." I read from (or into) this statement a position I have held via AI since I did my masters thesis in CS (AI) — computers cannot be intelligent in any general sense until and unless they participate in human culture. We automatically and non-consciously "enculturate" (normative practices that engage the world and involve thick engagement) our children. This is NOT education. Education is nothing more than a pale shadow of enculturation. Not more than 10% of the 'knowledge' in your head (knowledge about what to do and why and when and variations according to circumstance and context ....) was learned via any kind of formal education or training and yet it is absolutely essential and is the foundation for comprehending and utilizing the 10% you did learn formally. Until we can enculturate our computers, we will never achieve general AI (or even any complete specialized AI. davew On Wed, Sep 1, 2021, at 8:28 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > > UK judge orders rightwing extremist to read classic literature or face > prison > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/01/judge-orders-rightwing-extremist-to-read-classic-literature-or-face-prison > > I know several liberals who agree with the righties that vaccine and > mask mandates are bad, though not for the same reasons. Righties yap > about fascism and limits to their "freedom". But the liberals talk > about how mandates just push the righties further into their foxholes, > preventing collegial conversation. > > So the story above is an interesting situation in similar style. > Renee', to this day, hates Shakespeare because she was forced to > memorize Romeo and Juliet as a kid. Of course, she doesn't hate > Shakespeare, because she hasn't read much Shakespeare. She just > *thinks* she hates it because of this "mandate" she suffered under. > This court mandated "literature therapy" being imposed on this kid > could work, if he can read it sympathetically. But if he can't, if he > simply reads it "syntactically", what will he learn? > > BC Smith, in his book "The Promise of AI", channels Steels & Brooks [ψ] > in writing: > > "What does all this mean in the case of AIs and computer systems > generally? Perhaps at least this: that it is hard to see how synthetic > systems could be trained in the ways of judgment except by gradually, > incrementally, and systematically enmeshed in normative practices that > engage with the world and that involve thick engagement with teachers > ('elders'), who can steadily develop and inculcate not just 'moral > sensibility' but also intellectual appreciation of intentional > commitment to the world." > > If we think of this kid, Ben John, as an AI, what will he learn by > mandating he read Dickens? Similarly, what are the mandate protesters > learning from our mandates? Stupidity should be painful. And the > court's reaction to this kid's stupidity, the pain of reading Pride and > Prejudice, should teach that kid something. But which is the more > dangerous stupidity? Which stupidity runs the risk of a more > catastrophic outcome? Avoiding the vaccine? Or mandating vaccination? > > > [ψ] https://doi.org/10.4324/9781351001885 > > -- > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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