That idea (not Dave, but the idea that someone who might be in fact a bot) reminds me of one or more trolls that used to, and maybe still do, hang out on comp.lang.lisp under a variety of pseudonyms.
On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:26 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > I’m already convinced Dave is bot. I know I am. > > > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2021/08/dead-internet-theory-wrong-but-feels-true/619937/ > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 8:23 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] aversive learning > > > > Culture is online now, didn’t you hear? > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 8:12 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] aversive learning > > > > Glen quoted BC Smith: > > > > *"What does all this mean in the case of AIs and computer systems > generally? Perhaps at least this: that it is hard to see how synthetic > systems could be trained in the ways of judgment except by gradually, > incrementally, and systematically enmeshed in normative practices that > engage with the world and that involve thick engagement with teachers > ('elders'), who can steadily develop and inculcate not just 'moral > sensibility' but also intellectual appreciation of intentional commitment > to the world."* > > > > I read from (or into) this statement a position I have held via AI since > I did my masters thesis in CS (AI) — computers cannot be intelligent in any > general sense until and unless they participate in human culture. We > automatically and non-consciously "enculturate" (normative practices that > engage the world and involve thick engagement) our children. > > > > This is NOT education. Education is nothing more than a pale shadow of > enculturation. Not more than 10% of the 'knowledge' in your head (knowledge > about what to do and why and when and variations according to circumstance > and context ....) was learned via any kind of formal education or training > and yet it is absolutely essential and is the foundation for comprehending > and utilizing the 10% you did learn formally. > > > > Until we can enculturate our computers, we will never achieve general AI > (or even any complete specialized AI. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2021, at 8:28 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > > > > > > UK judge orders rightwing extremist to read classic literature or face > > > prison > > > > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/01/judge-orders-rightwing-extremist-to-read-classic-literature-or-face-prison > > > > > > I know several liberals who agree with the righties that vaccine and > > > mask mandates are bad, though not for the same reasons. Righties yap > > > about fascism and limits to their "freedom". But the liberals talk > > > about how mandates just push the righties further into their foxholes, > > > preventing collegial conversation. > > > > > > So the story above is an interesting situation in similar style. > > > Renee', to this day, hates Shakespeare because she was forced to > > > memorize Romeo and Juliet as a kid. Of course, she doesn't hate > > > Shakespeare, because she hasn't read much Shakespeare. She just > > > *thinks* she hates it because of this "mandate" she suffered under. > > > This court mandated "literature therapy" being imposed on this kid > > > could work, if he can read it sympathetically. But if he can't, if he > > > simply reads it "syntactically", what will he learn? > > > > > > BC Smith, in his book "The Promise of AI", channels Steels & Brooks [ψ] > > > in writing: > > > > > > "What does all this mean in the case of AIs and computer systems > > > generally? Perhaps at least this: that it is hard to see how synthetic > > > systems could be trained in the ways of judgment except by gradually, > > > incrementally, and systematically enmeshed in normative practices that > > > engage with the world and that involve thick engagement with teachers > > > ('elders'), who can steadily develop and inculcate not just 'moral > > > sensibility' but also intellectual appreciation of intentional > > > commitment to the world." > > > > > > If we think of this kid, Ben John, as an AI, what will he learn by > > > mandating he read Dickens? Similarly, what are the mandate protesters > > > learning from our mandates? Stupidity should be painful. And the > > > court's reaction to this kid's stupidity, the pain of reading Pride and > > > Prejudice, should teach that kid something. But which is the more > > > dangerous stupidity? Which stupidity runs the risk of a more > > > catastrophic outcome? Avoiding the vaccine? Or mandating vaccination? > > > > > > > > > [ψ] https://doi.org/10.4324/9781351001885 > > > > > > -- > > > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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