In this argument of what is and what is not conscious, the key issue for me always is what the hell are we trying to preserve for humans uniquely and why. Are slaves conscious? Are cows conscious? Are lobsters conscious? Are embryos conscious? Are plants conscious? Only when we clearly see our interest in the answer, can we begin to consider the question rationally.
Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 9:23 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking Thanks, Steve. A reminder the movie event is this Thursday: https://watch.eventive.org/aware/play/615f2c9cfb31210037ecade7 And although these may be overvalued, they and ones like them are finally showing some progress: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/CMPS?p=CMPS&.tsrc=fin-srch https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MNMD?p=MNMD&.tsrc=fin-srch The argument surrounding plant awareness and expression is interesting. It makes sense to me to argue that if plants are "sentient" in any operable sense, their communication and self-sensing would occur at the molecular scale, perhaps going outward a bit to tissue and inward a bit to coherence. (Interesting, if a bit romantic, essay here: https://quantumfrontiers.com/2021/11/07/entangled-fields-and-post-anthropocene-computation-quantum-perspectives-for-a-healthy-planet/) But my guess is most of the larger scale sounds plants generate are non-sentient acoustic emission, like your motor clicking after you shut it off. But who knows, vibration may be similar to "force-based" treatments like physical therapy or massage ... or even acupressure. Just because acupuncture seems like pure pseudoscience, other force-based therapy, including vibration-based may have finer grained impact than we can currently account for (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/physics-and-astronomy/ultrasonic-cavitation). Heliotropism is also a thing, I guess. On 11/1/21 1:37 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > I found this article on consciousness interestingly broadening of my own view > of it: > > https://www.geekwire.com/2021/neuroscientist-recounts-long-strange-tri > p-plumb-depths-consciousness/ > -- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." ☤>$ uǝlƃ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
