On 9/11/22 12:56 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Was just driving the backroads of Oregon in a Tesla on autopilot.
Tesla autopilot knows a lot. For example, it understands the
difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle. On one occasion it
mistook the sun low in the sky for a large yellow streetlight. When
it is confused it simply requires you to take the wheel. While it
never seems to miss speed signs, it will respect the driver’s speed
setting. Autopilot still requires the driver to check in frequently,
so it is mostly still a novelty. One thing it is better at than I am,
is identifying deceleration. It warns only if you don’t see it, not
if you do.
I've a friend who made the point a while back that humanity's history
with technology has been to consistently build things to replace
themselves...
One could argue that our technology has been to *augment* rather than
*replace* and yet the net result is to displace? Tooth and Claw becomes
flaked stone-cum surgical steel/ceramic - blade/chainsaw. Fur and
leathery hide becomes bearskin robe-cum temperature-regulated kevlar
body-armor. Calloused Feet becomes latex-dipped runners cum
Self-Driving Tesla Gyrocopter. Memory and oral tradition becomes clay
tablet/quipu - cum global interwebs connecting IoQT (internet of Quantum
Things)?
I have had a few brushes with modern automobiles (rentals), advanced
situational awareness sensors but no *actuators*... And yet even my
first Schwinn circa 1964 was advanced enough that once I was "trained to
it", the bicycle could "steer itself" almost as if it were reading my mind.
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
*Sent:* Sunday, September 11, 2022 11:19 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Wolpert - discussion thread placeholder
My erstwhile boss Raj Reddy was in the same Department with Simon and
Newell and knew their work well. He said that it was relatively easy
to create a computer program that did the work of a professor that the
real challenge would be to develop an autonomous bulldozer.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Sun, Sep 11, 2022, 11:37 AM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Wolpert's questions are fantastic. Thanks glen for prompting this
discussion.
Re: question one about the "chasm with minimal cognitive
capabilities necessary ..."
I have two major problems with the assumptions behind this question.
First, the assumption that Godel, Einstein, and Beethoven
exemplify 'greater' (in some sense of that word) cognitive
abilities. This is analogous the the AI notions advanced by Newel
and Simon that they had succeeded in creating a thinking machine
because the thinking reproduced was that of university professors.
They thought that the way they thought was the apex of human
thinking. A much greater challenge— still avoided, even by the
most sophisticated ML approaches — is how a baby is able to learn
and extract meaning from a chaotic cacophony of inputs.
Second, that the cognitive capabilities of pre-Holocene humans
were "minimal." The most pernicious myth with regard our long ago
ancestors derive from either Rousseau or Hobbes—both of whom
conjectured, with no evidence, that our ancestors existed in a
primitive state—Edenic for Rousseau, and brutish for Hobbes, but
simplistically primitive.
Quite the opposite was true. The world was far more complex and
challenging, with everything from social relations to 'food
chemistry' (e.g. brewing beer) to explanations of why everything
in the world was as it was being highly variable across population
groups and constantly in flux. A bit analogous to the baby making
sense of the world.
Humans today are able to "survive" primarily because of tens of
thousands of years accumulation of "culture." Because we have that
resource, we do not have to figure out if that nice striped
quadruped over there will eat me; or, if that red berry will kill
me but the other red berry is essential for a great BLT.
It might be possible to make an argument: Godel, et. al., were
able to do what they did because 'culture' reduced the daily
(hourly, millisecond-ly) cognitive load such that it was possible
to put the 'surplus' to work on issues of math and music; but, not
that there was any kind of qualitative or quantitative difference
in cognitive abilities of humans then and now.
to be continued ...
davew
On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, at 8:05 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> DaveW -
>> Just wanted to put this here as a placeholder for future
conversation as I would like to take up Wolpert's questions even
though I am not "miraculous" per glen's invitation. I do need a
day to two to read and pose questions /make observations, but
others might be ready to chime in with observations right away.
>
> always ready to "chime" at the drop of a dime here...
>
> I look forward to your more considered responses. I hope my own
chimes
> aren't more mud than water...
>
>
>
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