I agree, Russ. I taught at Pitt and Carnegie Mellon for 25 years or so. Frank
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:42 PM Russ Abbott <russ.abb...@gmail.com> wrote: > Look at all the online course companies such as Coursera. They haven't > replaced college teachers. I suspect that one reason is that online courses > have no person-to-person mechanism to help students live up to the > discipline necessary to do well in a course. As a retired and somewhat > cynical college professor, my experience has been that the top priority of > too many students is to get through their courses with minimal effort. Most > students need to know that a living person is aware of how much effort they > are putting into their work. Without the ongoing presence of a watchful and > interested person-in-authority, too many students find it too easy to let > their courses slide. > > -- Russ Abbott > Professor Emeritus, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:00 AM Grant Holland <grant.holland...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Frank, >> >> I'm wondering why no-one seems to raise the specter that AI could start >> replacing management personnel. And I’m including CxO’s here; because I’m >> not convinced that CxO-ing is rocket science or quantum mechanics. Think of >> the billions saved. After all, if machine learning cannot get good at >> making better decisions than humans, and constantly improving at it, I >> would be very surprised. >> >> Grant >> >> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close >> colleague of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a >> college professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect. >> >> Frank >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> >> wrote: >> >>> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this >>> list noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have >>> thought about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist. >>> >>> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human >>> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program >>> "intelligent." >>> >>> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking >>> exhibited by college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate >>> (Newell and Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was >>> able to implement on a computer). >>> >>> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more >>> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that, >>> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved >>> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast >>> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension >>> of what was read did not make the cut. >>> >>> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human >>> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs >>> more interesting. >>> >>> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI >>> (or let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human >>> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a >>> Shullenberger and land on the Hudson River? >>> >>> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs >>> causing massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of >>> human intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since >>> the age of Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been >>> dehumanizing. >>> >>> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then >>> it is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform >>> human work. >>> >>> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my >>> profession—college professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I >>> would bet good money that a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver, >>> lectures far better than any I created in 30 years teaching. And probably >>> most, if not all, of the presentations I made at professional conferences >>> over the years. >>> >>> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have >>> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in >>> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I. >>> >>> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only >>> when some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not >>> essentialism, but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter >>> the finite sampling rate, there is always some missing information. >>> >>> davew >>> >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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