So, wanting the ball is a behavioral structure that we both could see and discuss. It occurs over time and is not occasion specific.
It's important to distinguish between anthropomorphism and anecdotalism. I guess what I am arguing for is a kind of critical anecdotalism in which we line up our understandings with respect to experiences we share, rather than with citations of authorities. On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 3:28 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > There’s a large black male dog at the dog park with a very large red chew > ball that it brings every day. It won’t share the ball with any dog. > Abby is infuriated by this and would mercilessly attack him using her > cattle dog speed and smarts until he yielded (if she were allowed). > Wanting a thing is highly context dependent. It was one of the first > dogs she met in the area, and she has given indicators of hatred since > then. I dread seeing that dog. “I’m a gonna beat on Jimmy’s head today…” > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 12:19 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought > > > > These are fascinating. Particularly, the attempt to displace you from the > couch. Each of you chooses alternative means to convey your experience of > the other. In the end, you seem to compromise without actually > understanding one another. If you would like to go over it frame by frame, > I am your mind. I think if you look at the first few frames, he gives a > way his intention to settle down in your spot. > > > > N > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 1:32 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > So sad! > > > https://www.tiktok.com/@itsgatsbytime/video/7271730952144014635?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:21 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought > > > > Another fabulous example. Sad to say, I have never held hands with a > dog. > > > > Nick > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 1:13 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > It shows that one can have a prior, and modify it based on other > evidence. I do not have another explanation for why she would offer her > paw to be held when driving. > > “Offer” means she repeatedly taps me with it until I hold it, then she > licks me once on the cheek. > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:08 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought > > > > Great example. The difference between affection is resolved by other > experiences that precede, go with, and follow on the scratching. > > > > in that connection, can I be an asshole and quibble with you use of the > term "express". As a metaphor, it implies that the affection lurks > somewhere under the skin of the dog and that the scratching is an effusion > of some inner pressure. Its use, blinds us to the evident facts > surrounding the scratching. If it were affectionate scratching your > getting up and leaving the sofa would not be followed by the dog taking > your warm spot and sighing gratefully. It would be followed by the dog > following you into the next room, etc. > > > > Nick > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 12:51 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > > Ok, here’s another example. My dog paws at me when I’m sitting on the > couch. At first it appeared to be an expression of affection. Then I > realized what she really wanted: Move and give her the space. She did > the same thing with her male sibling (a dog), and he would get rattled and > walk away. > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 9:43 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought > > > > Hi, All, > > > > Some;body on this thread suggested that I read the recent article on > whale communication research in Hah-Vud Mag. It was interesting, but it > left me screaming and beating the magazine with my fists in many places. > > > > If anybody would like to chat about it, I am here for that. Two comments > to poke the fire a bit: > > > > If this is to be the first time we communicate with another species, what > on earth have i been doing with my dog, all these years? > > > > If you want to understand an alien intelligence, you sure as hell don't > start with human based categories. You start with a broader perspective > and place both the human and the alien within it. Ethology got started > because its predecessor, comparative psychology, was obsessed with imposing > human categories on animals. Finding out what birdsong is actually doing > has been slowed up for generations by the twin metaphors of music and > language. > > > > Beware lure of charismatic science. Just remember, charisma is a > transaction between an individual and an audience in which the individual > engages unspoken needs of the audience and the audience rewards him/her > with notoriety Most humans are desperate to have their preconceptions > confirmed. > > > > AAAAARGH! > > > > n > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > > I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school, > from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of > languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the > same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all > available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding > of language and consciousness... > > > https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/ > > > > -J. > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > -- > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > > Clark University > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > -- > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > > Clark University > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > -- > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > > Clark University > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > -- > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > > Clark University > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -- Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology Clark University
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
