FWIW, there is a kind of "suck it up" that's less "macho" and definitely not MAGA. I aspire to the old saying about not being able to control what happens, only how you react to it. It's amazing how the tables have turned on who gets labeled a "snowflake". It's literally trivial for me to goad an outrageous reaction from a MAGA type. But it's really really hard to get a queer person to react in an uncontrolled way ... at least here in Olympia. They're so tough. They've heard everything. Experienced a lot of hate, often capricious. They're some of the toughest people I've ever met. They put the stoicism bros to shame.
While I agree that subjectivity is better understood as multidimensional, I disagree *entirely* that a baby is all or extremely subjective. Being largely against narrativity, I'd argue that babies are more objective than any adult. They measure the world and have a minimum of bias/narrative to pervert those measurements [⛧]. Maybe "objective" is the wrong concept, though. Maybe "empirical" is a better one. So I'd argue that babies->toddlers->...->grownup goes from less to more subjective. Plop any adult next to me at the pub and it's nearly impossible for me to avoid the attempt to find the edges of their narrative, their self-told story, their navel-gazing, masturbatory, subjectivity. [⛧] Now, to make such things consistent with superdeterminism and reification of concepts like consent, we need some lessons from plectics, the appearance of inscrutable detail from algorithmic rules. There, we might say that babies are executing the crispiest rules without the grit and crystallized grime that accumulates in the machine as it executes over time ... like that hitch I get in my elbow every time I lift something heavy after typing for hours at a time. On 8/28/26 1:15 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Sure, I just mean in contrast to the loud, incoherent, complaining man baby. *From: *Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> *Date: *Friday, August 28, 2026 at 12:47 PM *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity as a spectrum This sounds like a MAGA fantasy to me. A strong Rambo-like character who acts as a just avenger, has superpowers and roams like an invincible knight-errant through the country. The Jack Reacher novels are a nice read, but a person who can flatten any problem or bad person with absolute certainty is pure fiction. The promises to the MAGA followers to reduce prices and costs of living have apparently been fiction too. The trade war against Canada is certainly not helpful to reduce prices. And why start a trade war against a close friend and neighbor? Jack Reacher would shake his head. If I had to pick a fictional character then I would pick Indiana Jones, not Jack Reacher. But that's of course subjective. -J. -------- Original message -------- From: Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> Date: 8/28/26 9:04 PM (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity as a spectrum One of my guilty pleasures is the Reacher series on Amazon. The protagonist (Alan Ritchson), a beast of a man, finds himself only a bit concerned about his latest brush with death. (These brushes occur several times per episode.) This is just what he does and must do. The only thing he won’t tolerate is the reactive individual. Whatever happened to the male role model that can suck up their doubts and fears to push through? *From:*Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2026 11:39 AM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Subjectivity as a spectrum For the new book I have read the famous philsophers like Dennett, Searle, and Nagel, and used AIs to summarize their books. Nagel's book "The view frok nowhere" is a bit simplistic. Reality is more complex than having just two views, subjective and objective, isn't it? In the desperate cries of babies we see pure desires and raw emotions. Babies are cute but naturally egocentric. Lacking language they only can perceive the world in a subjective view, and helpless as they are they need to communicate their needs to their parents. The only view they have is a 1st person view (characterized by "one great blooming, buzzing confusion" as William James said, which they interrupt by intense bursts of emotions). Everything a toddler perceives is extremely subjective. In a sense a toddler knows nothing else. Grown-ups have learnt to follow social rules and norms. They learned the value of politeness and friendliness. They are able to reach a more objective view of the world. Thomas Nagel called this view the "view from nowhere" in his book of the same name. As we grow older we move along the spectrum from high selfishness to low selfishness. We are still driven by emotions and do not become fully objective, but we acquire the ability to view the world from an objective view. Nagel calls this ability to move from a subjective to an objective view detachment. We see it normal child development: Babies -> Toddlers -> Children -> Teenagers -> Grownups There are exceptions: evil psychopaths and vile narcissts are still as selfish as toddlers or use emotions to manipulate other people. Artists, musicians, poets and critics are intentionally using personal feelings and emotions to be creative in their works. Narcissists/pyschopaths (subjectivity for bad purpose) <-> Creative persons (subjectivity for good purpose) Would you agree that seeing subjectivity as a spectrum is more useful that postulating only two views (subjective vs. objective) ? ChatGPT has created the attached image for it.
-- 8647 ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω.
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