Lawry, I didn't " post any old bit of nonsense"?
I just don't care about it. Chris brought up the subject. I googled and got the URL which I posted and then forgot about it. This is what I sent. ----------------------------------------------------------- -- > > Check out: > http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty ----------------------------------------------------------- -- This is what stimulated your post telling me all the things I should into - the books and transcript, and documentary collections. But I am not particularly interested in this 40 year old event, but if I were I would not listen only to the pro-Arab input - which I suppose is anti-Israeli by implication. Your remarks come straight out of your pro-Arab stance - which is all right. I look to your contributions to get the Arab point of view and am grateful for them. You told me that the URL was "hard-core pro-Israeli". So, Chris is hard core anti-Israeli. You are more sensibly anti-Israeli. However, I don't expect anything from you both that is critical of the Arabs. I do expect that you will jump on anything bad the Israelis do whether confirmed or speculative. Unless the surviving crewmembers are psychic, I do not expect them to have known the intentions of the Israelis other than that they were trying to sink their ship. They can certainly claim that was the objective, because it was. If Johnson had ordered all American warships to take station 100 miles away from the conflict, I wonder what the Liberty was doing there. Why didn't she leave with all the others? You can answer those two points if you like. I'm sure you can. You ask (with a conspiratorial implication) "What is you agenda, Harry?" My agenda is not to bother with this thing any more. I am simply disinterested. Tell me about those two points - I'm sure you have buckets of stuff about them to deal with my mild curiosity.. Harry ********************************** Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles. Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 818 352-4141 ********************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:futurework- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lawrence de Bivort > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:14 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Futurework] with friends & gov't like these, who needs > al-Qaeda? > > "just reading the first one that came up" is a terrible way to do research, > Harry. Surely you know this. And then not noticing the nature of the > site > and assessing the likelihood that it is objective is...not research at all, > but something else. Frankly, I cannot belief that you were simply > remiss in > doing so. > > The account of the crew is vital as by describing accurately the form of > the > attack (timelines, condition of the boat, communications, identification > signs, attack sequences, etc) you can tell al lot about the actions of the > attackers, and thus about their goals, and thus their motives. But you > must > know this Harry. What is your real agenda here? > > Then you follow up with two odd challenges, which seem simply to > mimic the > disinformation contained on the website you initially cut-and-pasted > from. > There was no shelling of Israeli units going on from the sea. There was > no > reason for the USS Liberty to not be doing precisely what she was > doing. She > was in international waters and had full right to be there. > > And then to assert that you don't care because it was forty years old > does > not ring true, either. If you are disinterested, by bother to make the > posting you did? > > Do you think that we are so ignorant of history that you can post any > old > bit of nonsense and not get called on it? > > What is your agenda, Harry? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Harry Pollard > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:51 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Christoph Reuss' > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Futurework] with friends & gov't like these,who needs > al-Qaeda? > > I just googled and read the first one that came up. > > The piece brought in a number of outside contributions > which I haven't checked, but have simply accepted. > > The reports of the survivors offer little help as they > didn't know anything about why the attack was made. > > Overall, I would say the attack was indeed an accident > brought on in the heat of war. > > I can see no advantage to the Israelis in deliberately > attacking an American ship. In fact, it could only mean > trouble for them. The Liberty apparently didn't get the > messages to get out of there, which is peculiar. > > Apparently all American ships were kept 100 miles from the > conflict. Have no idea why this ship was left in harms way > or was there in the first place. > > I seem to remember that Egypt ran a blockade and perhaps > the Israelis assumed this was part of that tactic. > > However, I'm not particularly interested. It happened 40 > years ago and has disappeared into the mist of time. > > Harry > > ********************************** > Henry George School of Social Science > of Los Angeles. > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > 818 352-4141 > ********************************** > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence de Bivort > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 9:56 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Christoph Reuss' > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [Futurework] with friends & gov't like > these,who needs > > al-Qaeda? > > > > Harry, this is a hard-core pro-Israeli web site. I read > their materials and > > it ignores all evidence -- and there is a mountain of it > -- that the attack > > was deliberate. It gives the standard Israeli story and > offers no new > > information or line of analysis, and it is based largely > on secondary > > sources. The site is worthless as a source of information > about what > > happened, though it does a good job of summarizing the > Israeli > > arguments. > > > > Surely in your research you did more than check out just > this site? > > There > > are several books and transcripts of hearings and > documentary > > collections > > that you may want to look into, and a good place to start > is with the > > written accounts of what took place by the men who were > on the USS > > Liberty. > > > > Cheers, > > Lawry > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of > > Harry Pollard > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:26 PM > > To: 'Christoph Reuss' > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] with friends & gov't like > these,who needs > > al-Qaeda? > > > > Check out: > > > > > http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty > > .html > > > > Harry > > > > ********************************** > > Henry George School of Social Science > > of Los Angeles. > > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > > 818 352-4141 > > ********************************** > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:futurework- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christoph > > Reuss > > > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:34 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [Futurework] with friends & gov't like these, > > who needs al- > > > Qaeda? > > > > > > > > > <<the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy > > from coming > > > to the > > > defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet > > military rescue > > > support > > > while the ship was under attack ... never before in > > American naval > > > history > > > has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American > > ship was > > > under attack>> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/article > > s/0603liber > > > ty0603 > > > .html > > > > > > > > > 'USS Liberty' veterans demand investigation > > > > > > Jun. 3, 2007 12:00 AM > > > > > > Conclusions submitted in October 2003 to the Office of > > the U.S. > > > Secretary > > > of Defense by the USS Liberty Veterans Association, > Inc., > > in > > > demanding a > > > congressional investigation into the aborted rescue > > during the attack of > > > the USS Liberty and subsequent alleged cover-up. > > > > > > The group also calls for a new Naval Court of Inquiry > and > > that June 8 > > > be > > > officially recognized as USS Liberty Remembrance Day. > > > > > > 1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial > > surveillance, Israel > > > launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS > > Liberty, the > > > world's > > > most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 > dead > > and 173 > > > wounded > > > American servicemen (a casualty rate of 70 percent, in > a > > crew of 294); > > > > > > 2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 > > minutes, during > > > which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm > > canisters on USS > > > Liberty's bridge and fired 30mm cannons and rockets > into > > our ship, > > > causing > > > 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; > > survivors estimate > > > 30 > > > or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum > of > > 12 attacking > > > Israeli planes which were jamming all five American > > emergency radio > > > channels; > > > > > > 3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the > > firing of > > > torpedoes, > > > but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and > > stretcher-bearers > > > as > > > they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli > > torpedo boats > > > later > > > returned to machine-gun at close range three of the > > Liberty's life rafts > > > that had been lowered into the water by survivors to > > rescue the most > > > seriously wounded; > > > > > > 4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's > attack > > was a deliberate > > > attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire > > crew; evidence > > > of > > > such intent is supported by statements from Secretary > of > > State Dean > > > Rusk, > > > Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA > Director > > Richard > > > Helms, > > > former NSA Directors Lt. Gen. William Odom, USA (Ret.), > > Adm. > > > Bobby Ray > > > Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA > deputy > > directors > > > Oliver > > > Kirby and Maj. Gen. John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and > > former > > > Ambassador > > > Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967; > > > > > > 5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts > > of murder > > > against > > > American servicemen and an act of war against the > United > > States; > > > > > > 6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House > > deliberately > > > prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of > USS > > Liberty > > > by > > > recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the > > ship was under > > > attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is > > supported by > > > statements of Capt. Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of > the > > aircraft > > > carrier > > > USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth > > Fleet > > > carrier > > > division commander, at the time of the attack; never > > before in > > > American > > > naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when > an > > American > > > ship was > > > under attack; > > > > > > 7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain > > destruction > > > through > > > the heroic efforts of the ship's captain, William L. > > McGonagle (MOH), > > > and > > > his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later > > threatened with > > > "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed > > the truth; and > > > were > > > abandoned by their own government; > > > > > > 8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful > > supporters in the > > > United > > > States, the White House deliberately covered up the > facts > > of this attack > > > from the American people; > > > > > > 9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel > > lobby in the United > > > States, this attack remains the only serious naval > > incident that has never > > > been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, > no > > surviving > > > crewmember has been permitted to officially and > publicly > > testify about > > > the > > > attack; > > > > > > 10. That there has been an official cover-up without > > precedent in > > > American > > > naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now > > supported by > > > statements of Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), > > former Judge > > > Advocate > > > General of the Navy; and Capt. Ward Boston, USN, > (Ret.), > > the chief > > > counsel > > > to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack; > > > > > > 11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent > > White House > > > cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the > > American > > > people to > > > the present day and is a national disgrace; > > > > > > 12. That a danger to our national security exists > > whenever our elected > > > officials are willing to subordinate American interests > > to those of any > > > foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to > > challenge Israel's > > > interests when they conflict with American interests; > > this policy, > > > evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the > > subsequent > > > official > > > cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of > > Americans and > > > the > > > security of the United States. > > > > > > > > > > > > More information: www.ussliberty.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it > > contains the > > > keyword > > > "igve". > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Futurework mailing list > > > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > > > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - > Release > > Date: > > > 6/1/2007 11:22 AM > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release > > Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release > Date: > > 6/1/2007 11:22 AM > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release > Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: > 6/12/2007 6:39 AM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
