Hi, Ray, I'm not aware of any figure in Islamic mythology that compares to that of Jesus -- besides the fact that Muslims recognize Jesus as one of the several prophets that have helped shape their beliefs and way of life, Abraham being another.
Widely accepted notions of Islamic martyrdom include that of a leader betrayed by his political rivals, leaders who were abandoned by followers and so fought and died unassisted, and leaders brought down by others jealous of the leader's success and influence. But I don't know of anything resembling 'dying for the sins of others.' Cheers, Lawry > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ray Evans > Harrell > Sent: Mon, September 01, 2003 9:29 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Taliban on the increase > > > Sounds like Islamic martyrdom to me. Or maybe the "power > politics of Jesus > Christ." > > REH > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:37 PM > Subject: RE: [Futurework] Taliban on the increase > > > > By extension, Ed, the US is well on the way to preventing a world-wide > > bloodbath, as we are along in the process of providing everybody ion the > > world with a 'common enemy' -- the US. I suppose your will next suggest > > that the people of the world should really be thanking us for having > become > > their enemy so that we might save them from their own squabbles. > > > > I hope the American people who are footing the bill (in lives, money, > > domestic civil rights, and international standing) for this > appreciate the > > fantastic role they are doing for all those blighted folks out there who > > can't manage themselves except through our sacrifice. > > > > Sounds a bit like the Jesus complex: "We die for their sins...." > > > > Cheers, > > Lawry > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Weick > > > Sent: Mon, September 01, 2003 1:08 PM > > > To: Keith Hudson > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Taliban on the increase > > > > > > > > > Keith, the only thing I can say in response is what I've said before: > the > > > world will be a much more dangerous place if the Americans > withdraw from > > > Iraq and leave a total mess. The same applies to Afghanistan > where, I'd > > > agree, the Americans do not appear to have done very much fixing up. > The > > > place remains under the control of various warlords. And, as you and > the > > > NYTimes pointed out, the Taliban are still there too. > > > > > > Yesterday I spent some time rereading sections of Samantha Power's "A > > > Problem from Hell: America in the Age of Genocide". She goes into > > > considerable detail on how Ali Hassan al-Majid (aka Chemical Ali) > > > solved the > > > problem of the Kurds for Saddam. Many thousands died either by > > > being gassed > > > or lined up and shot. This was going on while Iraq was an American > ally. > > > The US was dimly aware of it, but preferred to look the other way. > > > > > > What will likely happen in Iraq if the Americans walk out is a > bloodbath. > > > Various factions there, religious or ethnic, do not appear to > like each > > > other very much. As long as the Americans stay, they have a common > enemy. > > > If the Americans leave, they'll only have themselves. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > Ed, > > > > > > > > I don't wan't to be tedious about this but after writing last > > > night about > > > > the complete and utter failure of the Americans to do anything > > > constructive > > > > in Afghanistan -- and certainly in their main objective of > finding or > > > > killing Osama bin Laden -- I read this morning as headlines > in the New > > > York > > > > Times that the Taliban are on the increase again! > > > > > > > > When Alexander the Great invaded Afghanistan he left some real > legacies > > > > behind him -- a couple of new cities if I remember my history books > > > rightly > > > > -- as well as genes for blue eyes and blonde hair which > still turn up > > > > surprisingly often in Afghani children. The Americans have not left > > > > anything even as microscopic as that. > > > > > > > > The Americans completely and utterly failed in Afghanistan, but > > > they have > > > > completely and utterly succeeded in not reminding the > American people > of > > > > this. And, because of the indifference of people to others outside > their > > > > own ambit, this failure is quite outside their consciousness and the > > > > ignorance will remain until the history books are written 50 or > > > 100 years > > > > down the line and it will only be scholars who will > register the fact > in > > > > their minds. > > > > > > > > The same -- and worse -- will apply in Iraq. The Iraqis are > > > only united in > > > > their hatred of the Americans. As regards their own relationships, > they > > > > have become even more polarised than they were before. Just like the > > > Afghanis. > > > > > > > > Here's another forecast. Today or tomorrow while the > > > Ayatollah's coffin is > > > > being carried to its resting place, there might be an incident in > which > > > > some American soldiers, despite their guns, will be torn limb > > > from limb by > > > > the naked hands of Iraqi young men. If it doesn't happen in the next > two > > > > days it will happen sooner or later. It will only take one BBC or > other > > > > journalist to record this on video, and the Americans will be > > > out of Iraq > > > > within a month. > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > Keith Hudson, 6 Upper Camden Place, Bath, England, > > > > <www.evolutionary-economics.org> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Futurework mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Futurework mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
