Arthur Cordell wrote: > Only now is the government of Norway beginning to acknowledge its role in > mistreating 11,000 innocent children.
It is true that lots of children with German fathers were mistreated after WWII. There have been lots of programmes on Norwegian TV about this. I am not sure what is happening about this. Not only innocent people were mistreated, but even people who might be called heroes were mistreated. Norway borders to Russia, and there were in the high north Norwegians during WWII who were watching German traffic (ships) along the coast and reporting to Russia by radio about German ships carrying weapons and soldiers so that Russian submarines and planes could attack these ships. It was very dangerous, Germans were all the time searching foor these radiotransmitters, and a large part of them were caught and killed. After the war became these people, those who survived, who risked their lifes in the war against the nazis, treated like spies. They were refused work and treated like enemies by the authorites. A few years ago the King was up in the high north and asked for forgivenes on behalf of the official Norway. It is mostly innocent people who are hurt and killed in war! Tor Førde Arthur Cordell wrote: > I saw a programme on the History Channel on the Norwegian government's > approach to dealing with children born of German army fathers and Norwegian > women. It is somewhat described in > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/729902.stm > > http://histclo.hispeed.com/essay/war/ww2/leb/leb-occ.html > > These children were declared unfit, apparently by Norway's leading > psychiatrist at the time, and they were whisked off to homes for the > retarded and unfit. > > (note that one of the singers of the group Abba is a lebensborn child whose > mother took her to Sweden after the war to escape the shame of being born of > such parentage, a shame perpetuated by the policies of the govt. of > Norway---Tor Forde, where are you when we need some comment.) > > Only now is the government of Norway beginning to acknowledge its role in > mistreating 11,000 innocent children. > > Who is responsible? The citizens then? The citizens now? Should there be > compensation for these wrongs? Who pays? > > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2003 3:36 PM > To: Ed Weick > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Futurework] Re: Expediency not responsibility (was Re: US not > an Empire) > > > Ed, > > At 11:52 01/09/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Keith, what we're into here is the thorny question of the extent to which > >the people of a modern democracy are responsible for the commitments their > >leaders make on their behalf. IMHO, they are responsible, even when it > >later becomes evident that the commitments were based on misconceptions or > >lies. I don't think you could have a functioning democratic state without > >public acceptance of that responsibility. Public indifference and apathy > >can not be used as an excuse. People who enjoy the benefits of citizenship > >in a modern state must be prepared to take responsibility for what that > >state does. > > I don't think you can say this as a general statement. All democracies have > different electoral systems and different 'back-up' and intermediate > institutions between the politicans and the people. In Switzerland (from > what I can judge) quite small communities, even individuals (who can > initiate referenda if they're good organisers), have a great deal of power. > The word 'democracy' means power belonging to the people, but in practice > true power can be very remote indeed, however 'democratic' the government, > particularly in countries with large populations. > > >If Bush and Blair lied, one would expect public outrage, forcing > >resignations. I don't know if impeachment is a possibility in the UK, but > >it certainly is in the US - witness Nixon's resignation in 1974 when it was > >pretty obvious that he was facing impeachment. > > The point is they lied so skilfully (backed up by further spins from their > staff) that the public have become thoroughly confused. In these situations > the truth takes a long time to be refined well enough to be understood in > simple terms. > > > From what we read, there has been a substantial outrage toward Blair in > the > >UK, but not very much toward Bush in the US, at least not yet. Keep the > >pressure up and Blair will be forced to resign. When the enormity of what > >the US has committed itself to in Iraq and the impact of the Bush tax cuts > >on the US ability to deliver become more evident, Bush could become a > >one-term President. > > > >However, even if Bush and Blair were out of the picture, the commitment to > >fix up Iraq would remain. > > I think in principle, yes, the advanced countries have a duty of care to > those which need help. But the cultural gap may be so great and the present > condition so serious in Iraq that almost anything that can be offered will > only make the situation worse. I don't think even the UN would be trusted > now. After all, the UN applied economic sanctions against Iraq for many > years even while the aid agencies were telling the UN that they were > hurting the ordinary Iraqis more than Saddam. > > > The big question would then become whether the > >coalition of the willing would turn into the coalition of the unwilling. I > >think it would be shameful if it did. Yet I accept your point that it > >probably will. > > Yes, and this is where we come back to reality again. Even if the US and UK > governments turned over a new leaf and proposed doing all sorts of good > things for the Iraqis, they may not be able to afford it because, at the > same time, both governments have driven their countries into deep deficits > (not quite yet in the UK, but it's about to happen), so that unemployment > and general insecurity will rise. This is not conducive to ordinary people > being interested in other country's problems, never mind dipping their > hands in their pockets. > Keith Hudson, 6 Upper Camden Place, Bath, England, > <www.evolutionary-economics.org> > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
