The same sort of world-view that only led the US to upgrade quality in the face of Japanese competition in cars, electronics, etc. The lack of desire for excellence. If its 80 percent OK, then ship it out the door. Cars, students, furniture, electronics.
arthur -----Original Message----- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:58 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education I agree. Now what would the assumption be that underlies such a desire? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:15 PM Subject: RE: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > Have you ever considered that schools are a function of and represent > society. In their present form (and with the level of funding for hiring > teachers) they seem to be what everybody wants--------mediocre. > > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Pollard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Keith Hudson; Ed Weick; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > > > Keith, Ed, Lawry, et al, > > As I've mentioned, kids who come through my High School Seniors economic > Courses have overwhelmingly never spoken to an audience, have rarely > written a reasonably literate essay, can't count. Here are Gatto's thoughts > > Gatto came to my notice many years ago and we had some correspondence. > Apparently, he now moves around a lot lecturing. He is a much experienced > teacher, considered one of the best of the best. > > He has firm ideas about teaching. > > This interview on the CBC is worth reading > > Harry > ---------------------------------------------------- > > INDEPTH: EDUCATION EDUCATION, NOT SCHOOLING: > > AN INTERVIEW WITH JOHN TAYLOR GATTO > > Owen Wood, CBC News Online | March 2002 > > > "An education largely comes from inside out. No one gives > you one. You make one. Schooling is just the reverse." - > John Taylor Gatto > > > John Taylor Gatto says schools are "incubators of disease." > He says they are hideous, horrible places that destroy the > mentality and the character of students, leaving them > crippled and incomplete. > > He's not anti-education, he's anti-school. > > Gatto taught in the public schools of Manhattan for 30 > years. He was named New York state teacher of the year, and > New York City teacher of the year three times. He has > written four books on education and has spent the last > decade travelling across the United States, Canada and other > countries to speak about education reform. > > In his first book, Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of > Compulsory Schooling, Gatto outlines why schools are bad for > our kids. He says schools teach confusion, class position, > indifference, emotional dependency, intellectual dependency, > and provisional self-esteem. > > Schools, he argues, do not teach children to think for > themselves. They don't permit students to mix with older > people, from whom they could learn so much. In schools, > children are under constant surveillance and they are not > taught to become self-educators. "The truth," he writes, "is > that schools don't really teach anything except how to obey > orders." > > A 10th-anniversary edition of Dumbing Us Down came out in > April 2002. You can also read Gatto's latest book, The > Underground History Of American Education, on his Web site: > > www.johntaylorgatto.com > > In Dumbing Us Down you write, "It's time to stop. This > system doesn't work, and it's one of the causes of our world > coming apart. No amount of tinkering will make the school > machine work to produce educated people; education and > schooling are, as we all have experienced, mutually > exclusive terms." You wrote this more than 10 years ago. Do > you still feel this way today? > > Much more so now. Since I wrote that I've travelled a > million-and-a-half miles in 50 states and eight foreign > countries and I've come to the conclusion that the trap is > built in to the very label we put on the thing. > > People can tolerate a small amount of schooling. They can't > tolerate 12 years where they're locked up and schooled for > that period of time. It has an immensely destructive effect. > The people who survive best are the people who have families > or neighbourhoods, which in fact allow the process of > education to take place. > > An education largely comes from inside out. No one gives you > one. You make one. People can help you along the way, but > they can't order one for you. Schooling is just the reverse. > > What's the difference between schooling and education? > > There's an immense difference. (In the schooling system) no > one is asked to show any initiative at all either in Canada > or the United States or Germany or France. What they're > asked to do is to display a sufficient degree of obedience. > That includes obedience to the stupidest rules or the > stupidest formulations of ideas. If you show an acceptable > degree of obedience, you're graded as Grade A for a machine > society. > > > "Standardized tests... don't measure a God damn thing except > the conformity of the student." > > > I don't deny that some portion of schooling has a value. > It's way out of control at this point where people are > ranked from first to 50-millionth on standardized tests that > don't measure a God damn thing except the conformity of the > student. They do not separate the good readers from the > mediocre readers from the bad readers. They don't deliver > what they claim to deliver. It makes me furious. > > I would be happy to offer this challenge. I would fly into > any Canadian city, and the city could provide me with the 20 > best readers in the city, and I would give them an open-book > test on an extremely simple book, a classic World War One > novel called All Quiet on the Western Front, and all of them > would fail. I would be surprised if any of them got one > question right, but none of them would pass in any case. > > I know because I tried that on the elite of Manhattan for 10 > years in a row and not a single kid passed. How did I know > they weren't going to pass the reading test? Because I > avoided the type of questions that are asked on standardized > tests. And I knew that the better the student, the more > certain it was that he or she would have screened out any > information that didn't look like it might be a question on > a standardized test. > > Because they are taught what as opposed to what? > > There are about 150 different kinds of information in a > reading section. The standardized tests selectively focus on > six or seven of those, over and over again. All you need do > is to ask a question outside the very narrow orbit of the > sculpting of standardized tests and I guarantee you, even if > the information is in front of the, quote, "good reader," > they won't see it. The better the reader, in fact, the more > certain you are that they won't see it because they've > refined their efficiency in reading to exclude anything that > won't be a standardized test score. > > What are Canadian government schools about? What do they aim > to do? The number one job in Canada is retail salesperson. > The number two job is cashier. The number three job is > office clerk. The number four job is truck driver. Would > Canadian schools attempt to raise people to the level where > they would look down on those jobs? I hardly think so, do > you? > > What would be said in defence is people distribute > themselves on a bell curve and so some people can't do more > than be a retail salesperson, it's biologically > predetermined. Well that is the airiest horseshit. I taught > for 30 years in inner-city schools and I will absolutely > guarantee you that right off the bat there is a selection of > those kids who are as sharp or sharper than the elite kids > in the so-called gifted and talented programs. They're not > being educated. (But) they're being schooled to be > specialists in the official economy. > > Your children in Canada are being raised to fit into the > predetermined economy and so are American kids. There are > some exceptions to that. The kids who go to elite private > boarding schools are not being raised to fit. They're being > raised to make policy decisions, to take command. > > > "What the top boarding schools teach doesn't cost a penny. > The big shibboleth to get out of the way is that this costs > any money or requires much training. It's pathetically easy > to teach these things." > > > There are 20 top elite boarding schools in the United > States. They graduate perhaps 1,000 people per year. In the > presidential election of 2000, George W. Bush went to one of > those schools - Andover. Al Gore went to one of those > schools - St. Alban's. John McCain went to one of those > schools - Episcopal. Steve Forbes went to one of those > schools - Brooks. What is the statistical probability that, > all other things being equal, four of the six finalists for > the American presidency, and the eventual winner, would have > gone to schools that only graduate 1,000 people a year out > of the five or six million who are graduated? > > But not everybody can afford to send their kids to private > schools... > > What the top boarding schools teach doesn't cost a penny. It > isn't in laboratory equipment. That's for the morons in the > upper-middle class to think. An education is absolutely > free. The qualities that schools that attempt to provide an > education aim for don't cost anything at all. They're not > dependent on equipment and they're only modestly dependent > on teaching personnel. > > I have a list here, because I'm writing an article about it, > of the qualities aimed for in the top 20 elite private > boarding schools: > > > Strong competency in the active literacies > > > If you went out into the streets of Toronto and you stopped > 100 people in a prosperous area of the city, there wouldn't > be a single person (who) could tell you what the active > literacies are. Yet the British government of Canada, way > back in American colonial days, made it equivalent to a > crime to teach the active literacies. Is it any wonder the > Canadian schools don't teach them at all? > > Active literacies are those forms of literacy you can use to > recruit other people to your point of view. They're public > speaking and they're writing. > > A good, decent teacher in Toronto would tell you, "I have > 100 students. If I assigned a writing piece once a day" > (which is what's probably necessary to develop a writing > competency in the young, or at least it's a very reliable > way to do that) "and I spent five minutes on each paper, > that would be 500 minutes or eight to nine hours. And five > minutes is an insult to spend on the paper. I can't teach > writing. I can go through the motions of it. And as far as > learning to speak in front of a variety of groups, you need > groups to speak in front of that will sit there and listen." > > They'd say, "It's impossible." > > No it isn't. It's pathetically easy to do. > > When I was teaching public school in New York City with 13- > years-olds, half of them from Harlem, the centre of my > program, although it was politically difficult to maintain, > was these two active literacies. There are a hundred > speaking opportunities a day in a city like Toronto. There > are tens of thousands of people who love to read other > people's writing. Think of all the old and retired people > who could be recruited to do that. Or the people in hospital > wards. Or just people with a good heart who want to help > out. > > > Let me just give you a few other things that the top > boarding schools stress that cost nothing at all to do > except the will to do it for kids: > > > Repeated exercises in the forms of good manners > > That's an undertaking based in the belief I think that very > few would argue with, that the foundation of all > relationships, whether friendly or business, are politeness, > respect and civility. The piggish manners of school > children, which are encouraged by any number of structures > in schooling, in fact are a good way to keep people in their > place. > > > A disciplined and trained mind > > That's made up of these components: a theory of human nature > drawn from history, philosophy, theology, literature, great > books. The best schools in Canada and the United States > touch this very, very lightly. > > A complete theory of access to any workplace, any > institution, any environment or any person > > You think that the people running the city of Toronto want > school children to know how to access them? I don't. I know > that the people running the city of New York don't want > that. > > It's pathetically easy to teach these things. Anyone who > starts with this template can in short order, painlessly and > with no money at all, draw kids on to a road to an > education. And the kids will be wildly enthusiastic because, > like people who have had a drink of water when they're > thirsty, they know that they feel better. And people whose > minds and characters are developed know they feel better. > > The big shibboleth to get out of the way is that this costs > any money or requires much training. It's childishly simple > to do. > > In Dumbing Us Down, one of the aspects of the education > system you criticize is grading - the act of using letter > grades or percentages to measure a student's progress. What > is wrong with grading? > > Nobody ever gets hired anywhere, except for government jobs, > by asking to see their grades. What do you ask for? You ask > for a track record or for some performance test. So why > aren't schools set up that way? > > They're not set up that way because it would upset the > social and economic apple cart to have people actually > compete on the basis of merit. > > You and I, and millions of others like us, have a > gentlemen's agreement not ever to mention these things > because there's nothing we can do about it, we think. > Blinders have been conditioned on to virtually all of us so > that we police ourselves. > > If you read John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian > Religion, the fourth edition, written back in the 1530s I > believe, Calvin says there are too many of the damned to > police. They outweigh the saved. What we have to do is teach > them how to police each other so that we can keep them from > putting a drag on our own projects. > > Here we are five centuries later and that's what Canadian > schools do. That's what American schools do. > > How do you measure a student if not with grading? > > How do you know somebody can write? I say write something > and then you say, "Look, you're a moron. This is > illiterate." That's how you do it. > > How do you know someone can add or subtract? You ask them to > do it. I'll tell you this, the kids who can't pass your > simple arithmetic tests never come home with the wrong > change. They'd be beaten to death if they did. They add and > subtract just fine when it counts. Nobody wants to deal with > those interesting contradictions. > > I had to put kids in thumbscrews when they would bring me > work that was second or third rate. I would say, "Who the > hell are you trying to kid? You copied this out of a book, > you brainless moron. Go back and do your own work and don't > bring it to me until it's of a standard that I won't be > ashamed of you for." > > Does that work? Beautifully. Splendidly. > > One of your beliefs is that education should involve sending > kids into their community to experience the real world. When > you were a teacher you used to send kids off on personal > field trips to follow around a police chief for a day or > apprentice with a newspaper editor or one of a hundred other > ideas. But how did you send your kids out of the school on > their own when you, as a teacher, are responsible for their > safety? > > I always made sure I had the parents' permission. Let's put > it this way: I'm not a flagrantly careless person but I > really am not Johnny-on-the-spot about details. I did this, > illegally, for 20 years, so it probably affected 2,500 kids. > And I sent them not only out of the school building, > sometimes I sent them out of the state. They were 12 and 13 > years old. Some of them were elite kids, most were not. I > never once, not once in 20 years, had an incident. Does that > tell you something about the common sense concerns of the > school institution? > > > "None of the school reform groups have any intention of > changing the product of schooling." > > > Kids don't put themselves in harm's way when they're doing > something they want to do. They're quite cautious. The most > dangerous place, in both our societies, is inside a school > that locks its fire door to make sure kids don't sneak out > and they don't have to pay for a guard to watch the fire > door. > > (Schools) are the incubators of disease in both our > cultures. They destroy the mentality and the character of > almost all the people who pass through them. We are left > crippled and incomplete. We're less than we would have been > in this kind of a system. > > None of the school reform groups have any intention of > changing the product of schooling. What they do want to > change is the public criticism, which is uneasy. It's a > condition that might provide instability in the future. > > I'm 67 years old and I'm appalled. I've spent most of my > life, as a boy, a young man and a man, inside of schools. > They're hideous, horrible places and the people who say, > "Well, I'm too busy to provide something different for my > kids or I'm too polite to stand in the street and throw > mud," ought to be ashamed of themselves. > > You often mention how it's possible to teach kids how to > read, write and do arithmetic in less than 100 hours. How is > this done? > > With the reading it's fairly common. Thirty hours is what it > takes to teach somebody to read well enough that they can > pretty much pick up their teaching and continue it on their > own. The whole math curriculum inside of 50 hours came to me > from a physics teacher who runs a private day school, called > the Sudbury Valley School. He said, "Our kids at Sudbury go > through the whole math curriculum, through calculus and > trig, in 50 hours." > > I once had a very famous structural engineer named Mario > Salvadori, (who) was the world's foremost earthquake > engineer, teaching me calculus, and he said, "John, I could > teach you the entire calculus in three hours. It's that > simple," he said. "But you've been so conditioned to believe > that you could barely learn it at all if you studied around > the clock, that it would take you three years if you could > learn it at all." I don't think he was exercising hyperbole. > > You have a lot to say about how the schooling system should > be reformed. If one teacher wanted to change one thing > either about what he was teaching or how he was teaching, > what do you think would be most important? > > I think the most important thing is to know who you're > teaching. And you cannot know who you're teaching by reading > the school records or by spending the minute or two that's > available to you in the classroom. > > I would urge anybody who's going to make their living in > school teaching to see to it that they visit the homes of > every single kid they teach. Make appointments ahead of > time. Hold an after school coffee session. I did it once a > week, no less than once every two weeks. Have as many > parents as want to come in and sit around and kick ideas > back and forth together. > > I would say to school teachers: do not be an agent of the > political state. Do not be because if you are, no matter how > sweet your smile or how bright your ideas, the real kids > will not trust you and neither will their parents. > > Work for those kids and first find out who they are, and > what they want, and what their family traditions are. Walk > through their neighbourhoods. Talk to them like people. And > you'll find that you've inherited, without you knowing it, a > tremendous engine of information and intellection and heart. > > For more about John Taylor Gatto, including his latest book > The Underground History Of American Education, go to his Web > site: > > www.johntaylorgatto.com > > Harry > > **************************************************** > Harry Pollard > Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > Tel: (818) 352-4141 -- Fax: (818) 353-2242 > http://home.comcast.net/~haledward > **************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
