I think its about producing and consuming "schlock" -----Original Message----- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 4:48 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education
That is what they mean by the term "Buyer Beware!" REH ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: RE: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > The same sort of world-view that only led the US to upgrade quality in the > face of Japanese competition in cars, electronics, etc. The lack of desire > for excellence. If its 80 percent OK, then ship it out the door. Cars, > students, furniture, electronics. > > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:58 PM > To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > > > I agree. Now what would the assumption be that underlies such a desire? > > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:15 PM > Subject: RE: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > > > > Have you ever considered that schools are a function of and represent > > society. In their present form (and with the level of funding for hiring > > teachers) they seem to be what everybody wants--------mediocre. > > > > arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Harry Pollard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:01 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Keith Hudson; Ed Weick; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: This sceptred compost heap (was Re: [Futurework] Education > > > > > > Keith, Ed, Lawry, et al, > > > > As I've mentioned, kids who come through my High School Seniors economic > > Courses have overwhelmingly never spoken to an audience, have rarely > > written a reasonably literate essay, can't count. Here are Gatto's > thoughts > > > > Gatto came to my notice many years ago and we had some correspondence. > > Apparently, he now moves around a lot lecturing. He is a much experienced > > teacher, considered one of the best of the best. > > > > He has firm ideas about teaching. > > > > This interview on the CBC is worth reading > > > > Harry > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > INDEPTH: EDUCATION EDUCATION, NOT SCHOOLING: > > > > AN INTERVIEW WITH JOHN TAYLOR GATTO > > > > Owen Wood, CBC News Online | March 2002 > > > > > > "An education largely comes from inside out. No one gives > > you one. You make one. Schooling is just the reverse." - > > John Taylor Gatto > > > > > > John Taylor Gatto says schools are "incubators of disease." > > He says they are hideous, horrible places that destroy the > > mentality and the character of students, leaving them > > crippled and incomplete. > > > > He's not anti-education, he's anti-school. > > > > Gatto taught in the public schools of Manhattan for 30 > > years. He was named New York state teacher of the year, and > > New York City teacher of the year three times. He has > > written four books on education and has spent the last > > decade travelling across the United States, Canada and other > > countries to speak about education reform. > > > > In his first book, Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of > > Compulsory Schooling, Gatto outlines why schools are bad for > > our kids. He says schools teach confusion, class position, > > indifference, emotional dependency, intellectual dependency, > > and provisional self-esteem. > > > > Schools, he argues, do not teach children to think for > > themselves. They don't permit students to mix with older > > people, from whom they could learn so much. In schools, > > children are under constant surveillance and they are not > > taught to become self-educators. "The truth," he writes, "is > > that schools don't really teach anything except how to obey > > orders." > > > > A 10th-anniversary edition of Dumbing Us Down came out in > > April 2002. You can also read Gatto's latest book, The > > Underground History Of American Education, on his Web site: > > > > www.johntaylorgatto.com > > > > In Dumbing Us Down you write, "It's time to stop. This > > system doesn't work, and it's one of the causes of our world > > coming apart. No amount of tinkering will make the school > > machine work to produce educated people; education and > > schooling are, as we all have experienced, mutually > > exclusive terms." You wrote this more than 10 years ago. Do > > you still feel this way today? > > > > Much more so now. Since I wrote that I've travelled a > > million-and-a-half miles in 50 states and eight foreign > > countries and I've come to the conclusion that the trap is > > built in to the very label we put on the thing. > > > > People can tolerate a small amount of schooling. They can't > > tolerate 12 years where they're locked up and schooled for > > that period of time. It has an immensely destructive effect. > > The people who survive best are the people who have families > > or neighbourhoods, which in fact allow the process of > > education to take place. > > > > An education largely comes from inside out. No one gives you > > one. You make one. People can help you along the way, but > > they can't order one for you. Schooling is just the reverse. > > > > What's the difference between schooling and education? > > > > There's an immense difference. (In the schooling system) no > > one is asked to show any initiative at all either in Canada > > or the United States or Germany or France. What they're > > asked to do is to display a sufficient degree of obedience. > > That includes obedience to the stupidest rules or the > > stupidest formulations of ideas. If you show an acceptable > > degree of obedience, you're graded as Grade A for a machine > > society. > > > > > > "Standardized tests... don't measure a God damn thing except > > the conformity of the student." > > > > > > I don't deny that some portion of schooling has a value. > > It's way out of control at this point where people are > > ranked from first to 50-millionth on standardized tests that > > don't measure a God damn thing except the conformity of the > > student. They do not separate the good readers from the > > mediocre readers from the bad readers. They don't deliver > > what they claim to deliver. It makes me furious. > > > > I would be happy to offer this challenge. I would fly into > > any Canadian city, and the city could provide me with the 20 > > best readers in the city, and I would give them an open-book > > test on an extremely simple book, a classic World War One > > novel called All Quiet on the Western Front, and all of them > > would fail. I would be surprised if any of them got one > > question right, but none of them would pass in any case. > > > > I know because I tried that on the elite of Manhattan for 10 > > years in a row and not a single kid passed. How did I know > > they weren't going to pass the reading test? Because I > > avoided the type of questions that are asked on standardized > > tests. And I knew that the better the student, the more > > certain it was that he or she would have screened out any > > information that didn't look like it might be a question on > > a standardized test. > > > > Because they are taught what as opposed to what? > > > > There are about 150 different kinds of information in a > > reading section. The standardized tests selectively focus on > > six or seven of those, over and over again. All you need do > > is to ask a question outside the very narrow orbit of the > > sculpting of standardized tests and I guarantee you, even if > > the information is in front of the, quote, "good reader," > > they won't see it. The better the reader, in fact, the more > > certain you are that they won't see it because they've > > refined their efficiency in reading to exclude anything that > > won't be a standardized test score. > > > > What are Canadian government schools about? What do they aim > > to do? The number one job in Canada is retail salesperson. > > The number two job is cashier. The number three job is > > office clerk. The number four job is truck driver. Would > > Canadian schools attempt to raise people to the level where > > they would look down on those jobs? I hardly think so, do > > you? > > > > What would be said in defence is people distribute > > themselves on a bell curve and so some people can't do more > > than be a retail salesperson, it's biologically > > predetermined. Well that is the airiest horseshit. I taught > > for 30 years in inner-city schools and I will absolutely > > guarantee you that right off the bat there is a selection of > > those kids who are as sharp or sharper than the elite kids > > in the so-called gifted and talented programs. They're not > > being educated. (But) they're being schooled to be > > specialists in the official economy. > > > > Your children in Canada are being raised to fit into the > > predetermined economy and so are American kids. There are > > some exceptions to that. The kids who go to elite private > > boarding schools are not being raised to fit. They're being > > raised to make policy decisions, to take command. > > > > > > "What the top boarding schools teach doesn't cost a penny. > > The big shibboleth to get out of the way is that this costs > > any money or requires much training. It's pathetically easy > > to teach these things." > > > > > > There are 20 top elite boarding schools in the United > > States. They graduate perhaps 1,000 people per year. In the > > presidential election of 2000, George W. Bush went to one of > > those schools - Andover. Al Gore went to one of those > > schools - St. Alban's. John McCain went to one of those > > schools - Episcopal. Steve Forbes went to one of those > > schools - Brooks. What is the statistical probability that, > > all other things being equal, four of the six finalists for > > the American presidency, and the eventual winner, would have > > gone to schools that only graduate 1,000 people a year out > > of the five or six million who are graduated? > > > > But not everybody can afford to send their kids to private > > schools... > > > > What the top boarding schools teach doesn't cost a penny. It > > isn't in laboratory equipment. That's for the morons in the > > upper-middle class to think. An education is absolutely > > free. The qualities that schools that attempt to provide an > > education aim for don't cost anything at all. They're not > > dependent on equipment and they're only modestly dependent > > on teaching personnel. > > > > I have a list here, because I'm writing an article about it, > > of the qualities aimed for in the top 20 elite private > > boarding schools: > > > > > > Strong competency in the active literacies > > > > > > If you went out into the streets of Toronto and you stopped > > 100 people in a prosperous area of the city, there wouldn't > > be a single person (who) could tell you what the active > > literacies are. Yet the British government of Canada, way > > back in American colonial days, made it equivalent to a > > crime to teach the active literacies. Is it any wonder the > > Canadian schools don't teach them at all? > > > > Active literacies are those forms of literacy you can use to > > recruit other people to your point of view. They're public > > speaking and they're writing. > > > > A good, decent teacher in Toronto would tell you, "I have > > 100 students. If I assigned a writing piece once a day" > > (which is what's probably necessary to develop a writing > > competency in the young, or at least it's a very reliable > > way to do that) "and I spent five minutes on each paper, > > that would be 500 minutes or eight to nine hours. And five > > minutes is an insult to spend on the paper. I can't teach > > writing. I can go through the motions of it. And as far as > > learning to speak in front of a variety of groups, you need > > groups to speak in front of that will sit there and listen." > > > > They'd say, "It's impossible." > > > > No it isn't. It's pathetically easy to do. > > > > When I was teaching public school in New York City with 13- > > years-olds, half of them from Harlem, the centre of my > > program, although it was politically difficult to maintain, > > was these two active literacies. There are a hundred > > speaking opportunities a day in a city like Toronto. There > > are tens of thousands of people who love to read other > > people's writing. Think of all the old and retired people > > who could be recruited to do that. Or the people in hospital > > wards. Or just people with a good heart who want to help > > out. > > > > > > Let me just give you a few other things that the top > > boarding schools stress that cost nothing at all to do > > except the will to do it for kids: > > > > > > Repeated exercises in the forms of good manners > > > > That's an undertaking based in the belief I think that very > > few would argue with, that the foundation of all > > relationships, whether friendly or business, are politeness, > > respect and civility. The piggish manners of school > > children, which are encouraged by any number of structures > > in schooling, in fact are a good way to keep people in their > > place. > > > > > > A disciplined and trained mind > > > > That's made up of these components: a theory of human nature > > drawn from history, philosophy, theology, literature, great > > books. The best schools in Canada and the United States > > touch this very, very lightly. > > > > A complete theory of access to any workplace, any > > institution, any environment or any person > > > > You think that the people running the city of Toronto want > > school children to know how to access them? I don't. I know > > that the people running the city of New York don't want > > that. > > > > It's pathetically easy to teach these things. Anyone who > > starts with this template can in short order, painlessly and > > with no money at all, draw kids on to a road to an > > education. And the kids will be wildly enthusiastic because, > > like people who have had a drink of water when they're > > thirsty, they know that they feel better. And people whose > > minds and characters are developed know they feel better. > > > > The big shibboleth to get out of the way is that this costs > > any money or requires much training. It's childishly simple > > to do. > > > > In Dumbing Us Down, one of the aspects of the education > > system you criticize is grading - the act of using letter > > grades or percentages to measure a student's progress. What > > is wrong with grading? > > > > Nobody ever gets hired anywhere, except for government jobs, > > by asking to see their grades. What do you ask for? You ask > > for a track record or for some performance test. So why > > aren't schools set up that way? > > > > They're not set up that way because it would upset the > > social and economic apple cart to have people actually > > compete on the basis of merit. > > > > You and I, and millions of others like us, have a > > gentlemen's agreement not ever to mention these things > > because there's nothing we can do about it, we think. > > Blinders have been conditioned on to virtually all of us so > > that we police ourselves. > > > > If you read John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian > > Religion, the fourth edition, written back in the 1530s I > > believe, Calvin says there are too many of the damned to > > police. They outweigh the saved. What we have to do is teach > > them how to police each other so that we can keep them from > > putting a drag on our own projects. > > > > Here we are five centuries later and that's what Canadian > > schools do. That's what American schools do. > > > > How do you measure a student if not with grading? > > > > How do you know somebody can write? I say write something > > and then you say, "Look, you're a moron. This is > > illiterate." That's how you do it. > > > > How do you know someone can add or subtract? You ask them to > > do it. I'll tell you this, the kids who can't pass your > > simple arithmetic tests never come home with the wrong > > change. They'd be beaten to death if they did. They add and > > subtract just fine when it counts. Nobody wants to deal with > > those interesting contradictions. > > > > I had to put kids in thumbscrews when they would bring me > > work that was second or third rate. I would say, "Who the > > hell are you trying to kid? You copied this out of a book, > > you brainless moron. Go back and do your own work and don't > > bring it to me until it's of a standard that I won't be > > ashamed of you for." > > > > Does that work? Beautifully. Splendidly. > > > > One of your beliefs is that education should involve sending > > kids into their community to experience the real world. When > > you were a teacher you used to send kids off on personal > > field trips to follow around a police chief for a day or > > apprentice with a newspaper editor or one of a hundred other > > ideas. But how did you send your kids out of the school on > > their own when you, as a teacher, are responsible for their > > safety? > > > > I always made sure I had the parents' permission. Let's put > > it this way: I'm not a flagrantly careless person but I > > really am not Johnny-on-the-spot about details. I did this, > > illegally, for 20 years, so it probably affected 2,500 kids. > > And I sent them not only out of the school building, > > sometimes I sent them out of the state. They were 12 and 13 > > years old. Some of them were elite kids, most were not. I > > never once, not once in 20 years, had an incident. Does that > > tell you something about the common sense concerns of the > > school institution? > > > > > > "None of the school reform groups have any intention of > > changing the product of schooling." > > > > > > Kids don't put themselves in harm's way when they're doing > > something they want to do. They're quite cautious. The most > > dangerous place, in both our societies, is inside a school > > that locks its fire door to make sure kids don't sneak out > > and they don't have to pay for a guard to watch the fire > > door. > > > > (Schools) are the incubators of disease in both our > > cultures. They destroy the mentality and the character of > > almost all the people who pass through them. We are left > > crippled and incomplete. We're less than we would have been > > in this kind of a system. > > > > None of the school reform groups have any intention of > > changing the product of schooling. What they do want to > > change is the public criticism, which is uneasy. It's a > > condition that might provide instability in the future. > > > > I'm 67 years old and I'm appalled. I've spent most of my > > life, as a boy, a young man and a man, inside of schools. > > They're hideous, horrible places and the people who say, > > "Well, I'm too busy to provide something different for my > > kids or I'm too polite to stand in the street and throw > > mud," ought to be ashamed of themselves. > > > > You often mention how it's possible to teach kids how to > > read, write and do arithmetic in less than 100 hours. How is > > this done? > > > > With the reading it's fairly common. Thirty hours is what it > > takes to teach somebody to read well enough that they can > > pretty much pick up their teaching and continue it on their > > own. The whole math curriculum inside of 50 hours came to me > > from a physics teacher who runs a private day school, called > > the Sudbury Valley School. He said, "Our kids at Sudbury go > > through the whole math curriculum, through calculus and > > trig, in 50 hours." > > > > I once had a very famous structural engineer named Mario > > Salvadori, (who) was the world's foremost earthquake > > engineer, teaching me calculus, and he said, "John, I could > > teach you the entire calculus in three hours. It's that > > simple," he said. "But you've been so conditioned to believe > > that you could barely learn it at all if you studied around > > the clock, that it would take you three years if you could > > learn it at all." I don't think he was exercising hyperbole. > > > > You have a lot to say about how the schooling system should > > be reformed. If one teacher wanted to change one thing > > either about what he was teaching or how he was teaching, > > what do you think would be most important? > > > > I think the most important thing is to know who you're > > teaching. And you cannot know who you're teaching by reading > > the school records or by spending the minute or two that's > > available to you in the classroom. > > > > I would urge anybody who's going to make their living in > > school teaching to see to it that they visit the homes of > > every single kid they teach. Make appointments ahead of > > time. Hold an after school coffee session. I did it once a > > week, no less than once every two weeks. Have as many > > parents as want to come in and sit around and kick ideas > > back and forth together. > > > > I would say to school teachers: do not be an agent of the > > political state. Do not be because if you are, no matter how > > sweet your smile or how bright your ideas, the real kids > > will not trust you and neither will their parents. > > > > Work for those kids and first find out who they are, and > > what they want, and what their family traditions are. Walk > > through their neighbourhoods. Talk to them like people. And > > you'll find that you've inherited, without you knowing it, a > > tremendous engine of information and intellection and heart. > > > > For more about John Taylor Gatto, including his latest book > > The Underground History Of American Education, go to his Web > > site: > > > > www.johntaylorgatto.com > > > > Harry > > > > **************************************************** > > Harry Pollard > > Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles > > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > > Tel: (818) 352-4141 -- Fax: (818) 353-2242 > > http://home.comcast.net/~haledward > > **************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
