In response to the points about physical CD's versus download and/or paypal accounts.
I was not necessarily suggesting that a physical CD be involved, merely a code key that would have to be mailed separately. However, as I also said in the original post, I don't expect VGStorm to do either. It is extra cost that would have to be passed on to consumers, and for a small company like VGStorm that's an unacceptable cost. I fully understand both the reality of the new gaming environment, and the position of Aaron's company; there's a fine balance between how you deliver games, how much they cost, and what precautions you have to take to avoid cracking, in this case improper download by minors, etc. I offered two suggestions. Neither is a super practical one. However, that said, I do not think that as game developers we have to say everyone else markets graphically violent games, therefore as long as I have a warning, I've done my bit. With a physical game, such as Grand Theft Auto which several people have brought up, in most places, a kid can't just walk in and buy the game. They're usually behind a counter, in a locked case, etc. That's not to say that kids do not play them without parental supervision, but I, like Thomas, monitor what my kids do, and I like it when companies at least produce an illusion of controlling who their products go to. As to Paypal, honestly, it's been years since I set up a Paypal account, and my memory of it is hazy. However, I know a lot of kids have bank accounts. Just as with anything else, it could be finagled. However, I think you're missing my essential point here. Once someone buys the game, they've gone through some effort either in getting a credit card by hook or by crook, or by accomplishing the goal some other way. My issue, isn't so much with the purchase as with the fact that this game is extremely violent, starts off with a extremely anti-social incident as the motivation for the entire rest of the game, and not only can anyone who downloads it play that sequence, but they are forced to to play the rest of the game. I'm not worried about the 10 year old kid who plays this game after buying it because they dupe their parents. I'm pointing out that any 10 year old can download and play the game. I feel that any developer, myself included, needs to consider these sorts of things when developing a game. If the game is free to download in either a demo mode or a full version, and it contains graphic content, no matter yur definition of minor or adult, you have to realize that people are downloading it. A warning message probably exacerbates this more than it stops people. It would have for me when I was younger. A friend of mine and I cracked Leisure Suit Larry back in the eighties precisely because we weren't supposed to. If the first sequence were modified or removed, this game would still bother me for the violence, but it would have set off my warning sensors a lot less. Thanks for listening yet again:) Take care, Jeremy On 4/29/15, gamers-requ...@audyssey.org <gamers-requ...@audyssey.org> wrote: > Send Gamers mailing list submissions to > gamers@audyssey.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gamers-requ...@audyssey.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gamers-ow...@audyssey.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: psycho strike help (Aaron Baker) > 2. Re: psycho strike some observations (Thomas Ward) > 3. Re: psycho strike some observations (Thomas Ward) > 4. Psycho strike help part 2 (michael maslo) > 5. Re: psycho strike some observations and other related topics > bundled together (Desiree Oudinot) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:44:58 -0400 > From: Aaron Baker <theultimatemasterofarc...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] psycho strike help > Message-ID: > <cag+yvalglqg9vqt_ixy-c5c66wq9hfpimvjyc6s6wrt_nyz...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello, > Under manage characters, select your character and hit give person's name > food. > You have to kill the weapon shop owner. You won't be able to shoot him > unless you have a gun, so you will have to hit them with the knife. > > On 4/29/15, michael maslo <michaelmasl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi list: >> >> >> >> I bought the game and I have to admit I love the game! I have a few >> questions please. >> >> >> >> 1. It says I have 117 food in my place. I hit f at the main menu once I >> have >> loaded my character. My question is though it says I have 117 food when I >> hit N while on a mission it says I have 0 rations. >> >> >> >> How do i get the food as a ration before I starve to death? >> >> >> >> Also in the weapon store is there a way to buy a weapon or is there a way >> to >> shoot the guy who keeps shooting me. >> >> >> >> This game is so awesome! >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:02:51 -0400 > From: Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] psycho strike some observations > Message-ID: > <CAAfBG11=sqxq2wzh24ofjzzmrur1mlnr7udxxexthk63jsn...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Jeremy, > > You aren't alone. I do agree with a lot of what you had to say below, > and it is a major reason why I in all likelihood won't be buying the > game. > > Yes, while the sounds, voice acting, etc are all fine as it is I just > found the senseless violence, murder, and mayhem not to my liking. > While fighting and killing in a combat situation usually doesn't > bother me I found the idea of just walking into a party and killing 10 > people for no reason sick and immoral. Same goes with the farm > mission. I love animals, and the sound of killing goats for no reason > really bothered me. Bothered me so much I uninstalled the game shortly > there after because I just couldn't play the game after that. > > That is not to say I think the game is a bad game. I just personally > dislike the degree of violence and senseless killing involved in the > game. It bothered me in away few games do. It is one thing to be > killing zombies in a game like Swamp since they aren't real people or > can justifiably be called monsters. It is a total and morally > different issue to walk into a party, mall, jail, or somewhere and > just start killing people at random for little reason. > > Cheers! > > > On 4/29/15, Jeremy Brown <tyr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> So, I read the documentation, and I've played one game. Admittedly, >> that's a small data sample, but I want to make the following >> observations: >> >> 1. The game sound design and the game play are very nice. The hot >> keys are for the most part very intuitive, and the movement and menu >> systems all work as expected. Breaking the game into distinct zones >> that you get to from a menu and then sidescroll through made a lot of >> sense and avoided some obvious navigational issues. Some auditory >> cues could have been perhaps a little more pronounced for my taste, >> but overall, I got it. >> >> >> 2. I found the character motivation very flimsy. First off, just >> deciding to homicidally kill everyone at a party as my first action in >> a criminal career in which I want to amass a gang and get money and >> better weapons didn't click for me. Good crime bosses avoid >> entanglements with the police and such situations. Further, mass >> murderers of the type depicted in the first sequence aren't your buddy >> film types imo. >> >> >> 3. On a moral ground, I have severe issues with the character >> motivation, the game scoring, and the presentation of violence. >> >> The character motivation as character motivation was discussed above, >> but giving a player a choice of either body count or cash as a means >> of keeping score struck me as sort of sick. Further, I have a hard >> time justifying the developer's decision to release a game with this >> sort of content that can be downloaded directly and played at least as >> a demo, with no blocks in place to keep minors from playing it. All >> such blocks have issues, there's no good way to police such issues, >> but given that the first sequence is the murder of ten defenseless >> people for no better reason than you decided to strikes me a socially >> irresponsible. >> >> The game play is awesome, the game design has a lot of good points, >> but minus several million for good taste and well-thought out >> character motivations. This game could have been improved immensely >> merely by introducing more motivation. You're a poor caterer who's >> about to lose their job, be turned out on the streets and a mysterious >> man drives up to you, he offers to set you up in comfort if you kill a >> certain man at the party. Unfortunatley, he does not have any way of >> identifying the man. While still morally reprehensible, this at least >> gives the player some reason to be doing this. Further, if more >> patrons have some means of fighting back other than police, then it >> might be less objectionable to me. I play violent games: every rpg, >> mud, etc is essentially no different in terms of raw violence. >> However, basing a game on killing people who are screaming don't hurt >> me strikes me, as I said before, as completely irresponsible. >> >> Take care, >> >> Jeremy >> >> >> >> >> -- >> In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:08:59 -0400 > From: Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] psycho strike some observations > Message-ID: > <caafbg10x3odrvv10nquy8_vw296oys1krzn2dy_z8fcd6pj...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Ron, > > Who is to say people don't take issues with their kids playing games > like grand Theft Auto? > > Truth is I am one of them. Even though my son might want games like > that I don't buy them for him. I tend to buy age appropriate games, > and those I feel do not compromise my moral inclinations. I always > find out what the game is about before buying it, and also check what > age it was designed for etc. While I know some parentsjust don't care > I'm not one of them. > > > > On 4/29/15, Ron hopkins <ard...@samobile.net> wrote: >> Hello. This is Ron. So I'm reading through these mails. Well, I'd >> like to know, how come people don't take issues with 10 year old kids >> playing games like grand theft auto, a game that has very graphic >> violents from what I've been told, where you have sex with women and >> then kill them by running them over, among other things. I think we >> need more games like this for the blind, What happened to society >> putting limits on what there kids watch and play. I personally love >> the sounds. We all know what is depicted in this game is very wrong, >> but after its basically roll playing. How many muds and other text >> games do people play where your a rogue and steal? Thats wrong too. >> Just an observation. I hope to be buying this game soon. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:09:11 -0500 > From: "michael maslo" <michaelmasl...@gmail.com> > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: [Audyssey] Psycho strike help part 2 > Message-ID: <000001d082f3$085e0e70$191a2b50$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi again list: > > > > I read over the manual again and I do not understand how to get a prison > out > of the jail. > > > > I only have a pistol knife and long knife with my fist too. I thought I > read > here that you need something to break the door down but no matter how much > I > hit the door it does not break. It sounds like I am hitting a metal door so > I do not know where the wood door is. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Also this game is so hard. I keep getting caught or killed laughing > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:21:36 -0400 > From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepowe...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] psycho strike some observations and other > related topics bundled together > Message-ID: <55419fc0.2040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > If a CD of the game was available, the price would rise exponentially. > Then people would be complaining about the high price. > This would also exclude those in countries who would pay much more for > shipping than is reasonable. > Even if there was a choice, physical medium or digital download, how > many people would actually pick a physical medium today? Disks don't > usually stand the test of time. What happens if, 5 years down the road, > someone wants to reinstall the game, but can't because they don't have > their game disk anymore? What if, God forbid, by that point VG Storm is > no longer in existance? We would have another Bavisoft fiasco all over > again, and you know as well as I do the backlash they would receive for > using an antiquated system. > Finally, is it really that easy to create a Paypal account if you're > under 18? I honestly don't know, which is why I'm asking, but it doesn't > seem like an easy task depending on the age of the child and his or her > knowledge of finances. You would still need either a credit card or a > bank account to make the transaction. > > On 4/29/2015 8:20 PM, Jeremy Brown wrote: >> First, to all of you that have responded thus far, thanks for actually >> responding. >> >> I'm going to address the issues in one mail to try and save time and >> space. >> >> >> As to Charles' comments that criminals are by definition anti-social >> and the name of the game basically implies what to expect, agreed on >> both counts. However, choosing to make a psychopathic killer the hero >> or main character of a game is a game developer decision. My choice >> as a consumer is to vote for the game or not by either buying it or >> not. Gangsters don't interest me as a gamer, so I doubt that this >> particular concept would have intrigued me even if the handling had >> been different. >> >> In response to some of Dark's points: >> >> RE: minors and their definition >> >> Besides, what is exactly a miner seems pretty debatable, hay I was >> watching the alien filmes and nightmare on elm street when i was 10 years >> old, not to mention playing games like mortal combat and moonstone, and I >> was quite fine with the idea that these were games and the difference >> between playing a game where I slice someone up with a big nasty blade >> and >> doing the same in reality, likewise violence in and of itself never did, >> or >> indeed never does bother me for just being bloody or graphic. >> >> Back to Jeremy: >> >> I was six when I saw the first Alien film. I don't think it >> psychologically scarred me for life; that said, I don't think it was >> responsible of my older brother who had charge of me at the time to >> allow it. One does not negate the other. Just because minor is >> somewhat fluid, saying well people see this all the time does not >> relieve the social responsibility of the producer. >> >> RE: warning message >> In the game's description on the Vgstorm website there is the message: >> >> Back to Jeremy: >> Agreed, and I applaud the developers for including this warning. >> Further, I agree that there's no good system for keeping minors from >> buying such a game, however, there are a couple of systems that would >> be more effective than the current one. Making the game only >> purchasable with a credit card for instance will exclude many many >> minors. Itm ight exclude legitimate customers with bad credit as >> well, but this is the sort of decision one must make. >> >> Many games in the past have used a dual system of printed material >> that is mailed to a consumer in addition to the game disk or download. >> Such a mailing might get the attention of parents. >> >> Neither of these options is a perfect solution, and I don't expect >> VGStorm to use either. I'm merely pointing out that ignoring the >> problem completely and going with a warning label and good intentions >> is not the only way to handle such problems. >> >> RE: Violence and motivation (This one responds to Dark and Desree) >> Jeremy's comments here: >> I frankly have to just disagree with you on this one Dark. I just >> can't see a psychopathic criminal who kills people at a party to start >> their career as a person who would form a gang. First off, for that >> person to be at that party they have to have been invited. This >> implies a certain amount of familiarity or intimacy with at least one >> party goer. Further, as we both agreed, avoiding criminal >> entanglement with authorities is the best way to be a successful >> criminal. >> >> As to the way the violence is presented, I did not get any bafoon >> comedy violence vibe. Further, it doesn't strike me as a screw you to >> society politically correct or not. It strikes me as an excuse to >> glorify anti-social behavior in the name of providing the blind >> community with this style of game. >> >> Now, first off, I am not opposed to graphic violence as such. >> However, I think that the underlying story and motivations for this >> game needed a severe rethink. It doesn't work for me on a hey, this >> gives me an excuse level, nor on the I have to do this to accomplish >> this goal level. >> >> That said, I'm glad to see developers trying games that are not mere >> board games nor polite society games. However, this game could have >> involved the criminal element without being anywhere as graphic nor >> conflicted in a story sense. >> >> Finally, these observations are, my own opinion. I am fairly >> obviously in the minority here. But, as a reasonably sensitive human >> being, and a parent, I find the approach to releasing the game in >> terms of just releasing it without any brakes and the chosen content >> objectionable. However, I wish VGStorm the greatest of luck with its >> other titles, and I hope to see other examples of their games using >> these mechanics but with a more well-thought out character motivator >> and a less offensive way of tracking character success. I downloaded >> both Psycho Strike and Paladin of the Sky when I decided to test the >> former, and I intend to give it a few more plays to see if my initial >> response was merely a kneejerk reaction. I also intend on fooling >> with POS and seeing if it lives up to the traffic I've seen on list. >> However, I suspect that my initial observations as recorded here will >> probably stand for me. >> >> Take care, >> >> Jeremy >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Gamers Digest, Vol 110, Issue 79 > *************************************** > -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
