That is a VERY interesting reply from a lurker.. :) Thank you very much Charles.,
Tom, can you give us an update ? (I understand that some of your work is confidential, so if you cannot, I understand). Greg Manning On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Charles Frame <[email protected]> wrote: > I have "lurked" on this list for many years--I suppose it's now time to come > out of the closet. I built my first working gasifier in 1983 after reading > the Mother Earth News article on their wood-gas truck. I would guess that > most of the "old-timers" who built gasifiers took their inpiration from that > article also. > Back then, I had read a little about molecular sieves, but in those > pre-Internet days information was hard to find. I had always been curious > about how such a low-BTU gas, composed of 65% Nitrogen, and the rest Carbon > Monoxide, and to a much lesser degree Hydrogen, traces of CH4 (methane) and > un-converted CO2 could even power an IC engine AT ALL!! Considering that > cleaned and filtered wood gas, as it enters the carbeuretor is mixed yet > AGAIN with atmospheric air containing about 78% Nitrogen in about a 1--1.1 > ratio--before being burned in the cylinder combustion chambers, the > combustible portion of wood gas is quite small. The huge quantities of > Nitrogen just "go along for the ride" and contribute NOTHING (so far as I am > aware!) But since my old Allis-Chalmers WD-45 4 cylinder tractor, and a > single-cylinder 13HP electrical generator ran reasonably well on wood gas I > became a believer. > I knew 30 years ago that there obviously were industrial processes for > separation of Nitrogen from Oxygen. Every time I exchanged Oxygen cylinders > on my welding rig took a big bite out of my budget, so I assumed that the > separation process must be prohibitively expensive--especially for putzing > around making wood gas. > > I read with much interest an article in Popular Science circa mid-to-late > 1980's about Tom Reed's project in Colorado with an oxygen-injected > stratified gasifier. I always wondered what became of that project, but > suspected that the cost of, and amount of, oxygen required kept the project > from ever being commercialized. (I know that Dr. Reed still contributes > periodically to this list, so perhaps many folks would be grateful for a > historical update on that project. ;-)) > > I haven't done much with gasification for the past 25 years. It was just a > fun hobby that gave way to more important matters--like earning a living! > But I can't help but feel that with all the improvements and breakthroughs > in materials science, micro-controller sensors and actuators, catalysts, > etc. that gasification could become a viable alternative energy option IF > the Nitrogen problem could be solved. > > I have a gut feeling that feeding pure oxygen into a gasifier to produce > nitrogen-free gas might be a net-energy loser. On the other hand, instead of > cumbusting wood-gas in an IC engine using atmospheric air containing 78% > nitrogen, why not inject pure oxygen into the carbeuretor mixer with the > wood gas? Instead of a ratio of woodgas to air of 1:1.1 would be ratio not > change to 5:1 woodgas to pure oxygen? Without all the nitrogen dilution, it > seems that the cumbustible mixture in the cylinder would contain much more > energy and deliver that much greater a force to the piston\'s down-stroke. > It seems that an on-board oxygen generator with reserve storage could then > scavenge some power from the vehicle engine to continuously provide the > oxygen quantities required. Could oxygen generators ever be made in such > mass quantities as to be cost-effective used in this way? > > Perhaps a greatly modified engine would be required to use oxygen with > woodgas. I've always been disturbed by how it is physically possible for a > virtually un-modified IC engine to burn wood gas and deliver ONLY a 50---60% > power de-rating burning woodgas at 150BTU/ft(cubic)as opposed to say, > Propane at 1000BTU/ft (cubic) or Natural Gas at 1200BTU/ft(cubic)? Does this > mean that an ideal fuel for an IC engine need only have 300BTU/ft(cubic) to > deliver power at 100%, and therefore gasoline, propane, and natural gas are > all way too BTU-rich to be using as engine fuels? > > I've read that after fuel is combusted in an IC engine that only 8--12% of > the energy in the fuel actually propels the vehicle due to mechanical losses > in the engine itself, and in the drive train to the wheels. Does this mean > that such mechanical losses are unavoidable and would be the same even if > the prime mover was an electric motor? Or does it mean that the step at > which fuel is converted into mechanical energy through combustion in the > engine is a huge energy loser? > > I've also read that most of the "nasty" by-products in automotive exhaust > have the word "nitrous" in them. Is that because the combustion air contains > 78% (benign) Nitrogen which becomes fouled in the presence of the combustion > of fuel and oxygen? > > O.K. I think I just thought of the answer to why one can't use 100% oxygen > to fuel an IC engine using conventional fuels. My cutting torch, because of > the 100% oxygen mixed with acetylene can generate temps up to 7000F. I can > guess an IC engine would run so hot that it would seize up in no time--maybe > even melt. Bad idea! But then, maybe with BTU-poor woodgas, that wouldn't be > a problem? Enough rambling.... > > To anyone who's read this far, I apologize if I've wasted your time. I just > have questions and speculations that I've never seen any good answers to. To > anyone who can take the time to enlighten me, either on- or off-list I'd be > most grateful. > > Chuck Frame > c/o Yonsei University > YSKLI > Seoul, KOREA Quoting Anand Karve <[email protected]>: > > > > >> Dear Friends, >> thanks for enlightening me about molecular sieves. From the information >> received from members of the gasification and pyrolysis group, it appears >> to be within the realm of possibility to produce pyrolysis gas without >> nitrogen. This opens up the possibility of bottling nitrogen free producer >> gas and using it as automotive fuel. Even a TLUD stove would burn much >> better if supplied with primary air without nitrogen. >> Yours >> A.D.Karve >> >> -- >> *** >> Dr. A.D. Karve >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ -- Regards, Greg Manning, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
