Why not use oxygen enriched air, with oxygen content of say 30% which is easy to produce in membrane systems.
http://www.mtrinc.com/oxygen-enriched_air.html On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Greg Manning <[email protected]> wrote: > That is a VERY interesting reply from a lurker.. :) > > Thank you very much Charles., > > Tom, can you give us an update ? (I understand that some of your work > is confidential, so if you cannot, I understand). > > Greg Manning > > > > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Charles Frame <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have "lurked" on this list for many years--I suppose it's now time to > come > > out of the closet. I built my first working gasifier in 1983 after > reading > > the Mother Earth News article on their wood-gas truck. I would guess that > > most of the "old-timers" who built gasifiers took their inpiration from > that > > article also. > > Back then, I had read a little about molecular sieves, but in those > > pre-Internet days information was hard to find. I had always been curious > > about how such a low-BTU gas, composed of 65% Nitrogen, and the rest > Carbon > > Monoxide, and to a much lesser degree Hydrogen, traces of CH4 (methane) > and > > un-converted CO2 could even power an IC engine AT ALL!! Considering that > > cleaned and filtered wood gas, as it enters the carbeuretor is mixed yet > > AGAIN with atmospheric air containing about 78% Nitrogen in about a > 1--1.1 > > ratio--before being burned in the cylinder combustion chambers, the > > combustible portion of wood gas is quite small. The huge quantities of > > Nitrogen just "go along for the ride" and contribute NOTHING (so far as > I am > > aware!) But since my old Allis-Chalmers WD-45 4 cylinder tractor, and a > > single-cylinder 13HP electrical generator ran reasonably well on wood > gas I > > became a believer. > > I knew 30 years ago that there obviously were industrial processes for > > separation of Nitrogen from Oxygen. Every time I exchanged Oxygen > cylinders > > on my welding rig took a big bite out of my budget, so I assumed that the > > separation process must be prohibitively expensive--especially for > putzing > > around making wood gas. > > > > I read with much interest an article in Popular Science circa mid-to-late > > 1980's about Tom Reed's project in Colorado with an oxygen-injected > > stratified gasifier. I always wondered what became of that project, but > > suspected that the cost of, and amount of, oxygen required kept the > project > > from ever being commercialized. (I know that Dr. Reed still contributes > > periodically to this list, so perhaps many folks would be grateful for a > > historical update on that project. ;-)) > > > > I haven't done much with gasification for the past 25 years. It was just > a > > fun hobby that gave way to more important matters--like earning a living! > > But I can't help but feel that with all the improvements and > breakthroughs > > in materials science, micro-controller sensors and actuators, catalysts, > > etc. that gasification could become a viable alternative energy option IF > > the Nitrogen problem could be solved. > > > > I have a gut feeling that feeding pure oxygen into a gasifier to produce > > nitrogen-free gas might be a net-energy loser. On the other hand, > instead of > > cumbusting wood-gas in an IC engine using atmospheric air containing 78% > > nitrogen, why not inject pure oxygen into the carbeuretor mixer with the > > wood gas? Instead of a ratio of woodgas to air of 1:1.1 would be ratio > not > > change to 5:1 woodgas to pure oxygen? Without all the nitrogen dilution, > it > > seems that the cumbustible mixture in the cylinder would contain much > more > > energy and deliver that much greater a force to the piston\'s > down-stroke. > > It seems that an on-board oxygen generator with reserve storage could > then > > scavenge some power from the vehicle engine to continuously provide the > > oxygen quantities required. Could oxygen generators ever be made in such > > mass quantities as to be cost-effective used in this way? > > > > Perhaps a greatly modified engine would be required to use oxygen with > > woodgas. I've always been disturbed by how it is physically possible for > a > > virtually un-modified IC engine to burn wood gas and deliver ONLY a > 50---60% > > power de-rating burning woodgas at 150BTU/ft(cubic)as opposed to say, > > Propane at 1000BTU/ft (cubic) or Natural Gas at 1200BTU/ft(cubic)? Does > this > > mean that an ideal fuel for an IC engine need only have 300BTU/ft(cubic) > to > > deliver power at 100%, and therefore gasoline, propane, and natural gas > are > > all way too BTU-rich to be using as engine fuels? > > > > I've read that after fuel is combusted in an IC engine that only 8--12% > of > > the energy in the fuel actually propels the vehicle due to mechanical > losses > > in the engine itself, and in the drive train to the wheels. Does this > mean > > that such mechanical losses are unavoidable and would be the same even if > > the prime mover was an electric motor? Or does it mean that the step at > > which fuel is converted into mechanical energy through combustion in the > > engine is a huge energy loser? > > > > I've also read that most of the "nasty" by-products in automotive exhaust > > have the word "nitrous" in them. Is that because the combustion air > contains > > 78% (benign) Nitrogen which becomes fouled in the presence of the > combustion > > of fuel and oxygen? > > > > O.K. I think I just thought of the answer to why one can't use 100% > oxygen > > to fuel an IC engine using conventional fuels. My cutting torch, because > of > > the 100% oxygen mixed with acetylene can generate temps up to 7000F. I > can > > guess an IC engine would run so hot that it would seize up in no > time--maybe > > even melt. Bad idea! But then, maybe with BTU-poor woodgas, that > wouldn't be > > a problem? Enough rambling.... > > > > To anyone who's read this far, I apologize if I've wasted your time. I > just > > have questions and speculations that I've never seen any good answers > to. To > > anyone who can take the time to enlighten me, either on- or off-list I'd > be > > most grateful. > > > > Chuck Frame > > c/o Yonsei University > > YSKLI > > Seoul, KOREA Quoting Anand Karve <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Friends, > >> thanks for enlightening me about molecular sieves. From the information > >> received from members of the gasification and pyrolysis group, it > appears > >> to be within the realm of possibility to produce pyrolysis gas without > >> nitrogen. This opens up the possibility of bottling nitrogen free > producer > >> gas and using it as automotive fuel. Even a TLUD stove would burn much > >> better if supplied with primary air without nitrogen. > >> Yours > >> A.D.Karve > >> > >> -- > >> *** > >> Dr. A.D. Karve > >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute > (ARTI) > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gasification mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > -- > Regards, > > Greg Manning, > Brandon, Manitoba, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >
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