I think there is very little that Carol and I would agree on when it comes to subjects and article topics, and we definitely have different editing styles, but I absolutely agree with her on one thing, and that is the hostility on Wikipedia is a turn-off to a lot of women and men. I would much rather be editing articles most of the time, and the only reason that I got into civility policy and related issues is because of what I've experienced and observed.
There are insulting women on WP, but I believe they're either women who are that way by nature, or who have adopted their attitudes to be "one of the guys." They'll throw other women under the bus in a heartbeat. Here's the thing: Even if we attract scores of women to come and edit, if the environment stays the same, most of them will leave (and a lot of the men who come during the same time). If you're running an exclusionary club and you want a more diverse membership - it's not just enough to throw the doors open and *say* "come on in." You don't ask your new guests to change their ways, you ask yourselves: What can we change about our club that will help these new members to feel welcome? Lightbreather On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote: > Carol....let's just deconstruct what you're saying here. > > If we were to take the words "female" and "male" and "women" and "men" out > of it entirely, would it sum up one of the major issues in editor > retention? I'm going to be honest, I've read a genuinely disproportionate > number of insulting edits made by women (as a percentage of overall edits > by editors I know to be women), and it's something that needs to be kept in > mind; while the overwhelming majority of editors are male, I've not seen > any evidence that a male editor is any more or less likely to behave badly > than a female editor. It's just more obvious because they outnumber us 10 > to 1. > > Risker/Anne > > On 30 December 2014 at 09:57, Carol Moore dc <carolmoor...@verizon.net> > wrote: > >> As long as (mostly male) Wikipedia editors are allowed to insult and >> harass editors whose edits they oppose for whatever reason Wikipedia cannot >> retain women, no matter how much they follow the suggestions below. >> (Unless of course they focus on shaming the WMF until it uses its terms of >> service against offending editors and administrators and arbitrators and >> that is my particular interest at this point.) >> >> Since few women have any interest in editing in a hostile editing >> environment. Many males leave quickly for the same reason. This is >> especially true in political, economic or current events areas which too >> many males consider their fiefdoms where womens' input not appreciated. And >> FYI just 2% of males is too many IF they are allowed to get away with >> insults and harassment. >> >> So reigning in the worst offenders on Wikipedia - without punishing even >> harder those who oppose - or EVEN lose their tempers about - their offenses >> is necessary. >> >> On 12/30/2014 8:30 AM, Tim Davenport wrote: >> >>> Ms. Stierch's comments are exactly on target. >>> >>> Do the GGTF-type organizing off wiki, not on-wiki. That's not the place >>> for it. >>> >>> Start your own message board akin to Wikipediocracy. Organize (and vent) >>> there. >>> >>> Use Facebook, etc. >>> >>> Concentrate on developing new feminist editors, helping them through the >>> steep learning curve, with an emphasis on content, content, content. Nobody >>> is going to have a problem with that. >>> >>> >>> Tim Davenport >>> Carrite on WP /// Randy from Boise on WPO >>> Corvallis, OR >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >
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