On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin <robertburrelldon...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Christian Grobmeier > <grobme...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin >> <robertburrelldon...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> +1 >>>> And while we are at it, reduce Roles and Rules to a minimum. >>> >>> Pruning is always useful but when the Incubator ran with fewer rules >>> and roles, the process ran much less smoothly which took much more >>> energy to supervise. I'm not sure that there's enough energy to >>> supervise so many projects without a smooth process. >> >> The process is not smooth, thats why more rules are currently in >> discussion. Supervising has already failed in some projects. Adding >> these new rules do not necessary mean that supervising is better; >> actually I doubt (and have said so). > > +1 > >> Have not seen a pruning recently. My feeling is we are adding more and >> more rules to a huge rule framework. And it feels always the same >> people are adding these rules and no one can stop them (not meant as >> an insult). > > It's easy to stop: just start a VOTE or -1 a documentation commit > > For example, the issue with the trademark check list item could be > dealt with either by an effort to provide detailed guidance or by > dropping the requirement from the check list by telling the board that > the Incubator expects the brand team to approve names for podlings. If > you have a strong opinion that we should just drop the requirement, > jump into the thread. > >> This is what frustrates me very much and will prevent me >> actually to waste more energy in rules/politics discussions. > > Then focus your energy on doing, not discussing. Find one example > which illustrates your criticism and prune it. > >> I have no suggestions how to do better at the moment. But adding more >> and more rules cannot be the solution. I mean this is no fun. We are >> acting like a company more and more. The time you need to understand, >> teach and develop this rules are not to underestimate. We even have a >> code of conduct. That all is no prime time stuff anymore and no fun. >> And in my world, Open Source is not only a business model, it is fun >> at first place. And this means, less but efficient rules. > > Rules based systems fail to scale > > <snip> > >> Cheers, >> Christian >> who is very frustrated at the recent developments on the ASF. > > Then jump in and get involved with improving stuff :-) > > Robert >
Yeah I agree with Robert though I do acknowledge that it can be really hard to get some things changed and you may need a thick skin and lots of perseverance. But lets try to demonstrate its possible - Christian tell us three things you'd like changed and we'll pick one and try to fix it right here right now just to show it can be done. ...ant --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
