Hi all, as you already mentioned PLC4X, I think in general supporting something to do logic-decisions based on industrial data-streams would be a nice addition. I do also agree that adding 80 projects might be quite a big gulp for us to ingest.
How many people are we talking about being on the IPMC/committers? Mentoring a project with hundreds of people would probably require a fleet of mentors. Chris From: Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> Date: Monday, 5. December 2022 at 04:15 To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIE Proposal We need to go through the IP clearance and help the project to do the release that follows the Apache police. It could be a nightmare for the incubator if we donate an "Umbrella Project." Can we consider donating sub-projects such as kogito one by one? Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:21 AM Niall Pemberton <niall.pember...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wow, 137 GitHub repositories! > > OK, so 38 are archived and 19 are forks, but that still leaves 80! Do you > have a rough idea of how many of those would be part of the incubation? > > Historically, Apache has been against "Umbrella Projects" - encouraging > them to break up and become individual Top Level Projects (TLP) in their > own right - the biggest example of that was Jakarta which used to be > anything java related - but there have been others where sub-projects which > have a life of their own have moved out to become TLPs. > > To me this looks like it should be 4 or 5 projects - its not clear whether > kie is a product in its own right (with releasable artifcats) or just the > umbrella that the others are grouped under? > * drools > * jbpm > * kogito > * optaplanner > * kie ??? > > Niall > > > On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 21:36, Jason Porter <jpor...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote: > > > Abstract > > > > KIE (Knowledge is Everything) is a community of solutions and supporting > > tooling for knowledge engineering and process automation, focusing on > > events, rules, and workflows. > > > > Proposal< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#proposal > > > > > > > KIE is a community dedicated to supporting knowledge engineering and > > process automation, using standards from groups like OMG (BPMN, CMMN, DMN), > > CNCF (Serverless Workflow, Cloud Events), and DMG (PMML, PFA). KIE is > > comprised of leading open-source projects (like Drools and jBPM), which > > provide modeling and code authoring tools in this space. The work has a > > strong emphasis on being a first-class citizen for Kubernetes but will > > continue to support embedded and other environments such as edge computing. > > Drools and jBPM are well-known projects in their areas of rules and > > workflow and they will be joined by another project, building on a shared > > core with jBPM, for CNCF’s Serverless Workflow - this project is going > > through a naming process at the time of this application. Kogito is the > > foundation project for workflow which jBPM and CNCF’s Serverless Workflow > > build on. Services and frameworks are provided to enable those projects in > > a cloud-native environment and tooling is made available through KIE Tools. > > > > Background< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#background > > > > > > > Experience has shown that a holistic approach is a practical requirement > > for any knowledge engineering and process automation. This requires a > > breadth of capabilities able to model and execute an application’s data > > models, rules, workflows, and events. These projects aim to provide a > > holistic approach with a strong emphasis on congruency across them. > > > > Rationale< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#rationale > > > > > > > Knowledge engineering and process automation have been and continue to > > play a large part in today’s software lifecycle. To date, there have been > > few truly open-source implementations of any of the specifications (DMN, > > PMML, BPMN, CNCF Workflow, etc). The projects within Red Hat implement > > these standards and fill that gap of having an open-source implementation. > > > > > > The projects within KIE also mesh well with other Apache projects such as > > Apache Camel and Apache Airavata. Integrations could be done at the IoT > > level with Apache PLC4X and others. > > > > > > Developers need a solution that follows, implements, and collaborates with > > these industry specifications. The Apache Software Foundation would allow > > these projects to continue to grow in a vendor-neutral environment and > > promote further collaboration with existing integrations and future > > partners. > > > > Initial Goals< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#initial-goals > > > > > > > First and foremost, we aim to enlarge the community. KIE has primarily > > been an open-source community of Red Hat Developers and users outside of > > Red Hat. Adding IBM to the list of developers helps, but we would like to > > see more. We have ideas for the various sub-projects, such as > > straight-through processing support in Kogito, better spec compliance for > > the tooling, and more research into language bindings for non-Java > > languages. We believe we can address some of these while an Apache > > Incubator project. > > > > Current Status< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#current-status > > > > > > > Code for the various projects with the KIE community is all hosted on > > GitHub. This includes Kogito, Drools, jBPM, and KIE Tools. All of the code > > is Apache 2 licensed. Red Hat has been the project’s custodian since its > > inception and has maintained leadership in that area. Moving forward into > > the Apache Incubator, we would need to establish the habit of holding votes > > and meetings and the project updates per the Apache Way. > > > > > > We also currently maintain a YouTube channel dedicated to the community > > and projects, a Twitter presence, and a LinkedIn page for the KIE Community. > > > > Meritocracy:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#meritocracy > > > > > > > Red Hat runs all of its open-source projects as meritocracies, the KIE > > Community is no different. This aspect would not change any. Kogito > > currently does not make a distinction between “committer” and “PMC member” > > the same way Apache does. That aspect would need implementation. > > > > Community:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#community > > > > > > > The KIE Community has an active base of contributors within and outside > > Red Hat. Community members currently use Zulip chat or mailing lists hosted > > by Google Groups as communication tools. It has been that way for many > > years. Before that, we were using IRC at Freenode for many years. There are > > also mailing lists hosted on Google Groups that are leveraged for those who > > prefer mailing list communication. Zulip was started as a standard > > communication medium for KIE Community back in 2020. IRC has been used > > since 2003. > > > > Core Developers:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#core-developers > > > > > > > Core developers would come from both Red Hat and IBM. They include people > > who have been working on related projects and the creation of the KIE > > Community since the beginning, and also people new to the project. > > > > Alignment:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#alignment > > > > > > > Projects within the KIE Community align with multiple efforts within > > Apache, namely: > > > > * Apache OpenWhisk > > > > * Apache Airavata > > > > * Apache Camel > > > > > > We are currently actively involved in collaboration with Apache Camel, > > while the other two are more alignments and usages within the communities. > > There may be other Apache projects which could benefit from integration > > with KIE Community projects. > > > > > > jBPM, the proposed Serverless Workflow project and the Kogito workflow > > foundation are targeting serverless and microservice deployments. It helps > > to create automation and integration with other technologies in a > > simple-to-use and understandable way. The Apache Software Foundation is a > > great place to collaborate with multiple companies and technologies. We’re > > looking to build a community that is inclusive, helpful, and a good citizen > > to the larger Open Source community. > > > > > > Other projects within the KIE Community umbrella target a more standard > > enterprise software approach and deployment model. > > > > Known Risks< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#known-risks > > > > > > > The Kogito workflow foundation targets the Quarkus environment, an > > open-source project that Red Hat maintains. Should Red Hat no longer wish > > to maintain Quarkus or move it in a direction that harms Kogito, a pivot > > may be necessary. The Kogito workflow foundation will still run on other > > runtimes, so it is less of a risk as well. > > > > There should not be any risks for other projects. > > > > Project Name< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#project-name > > > > > > > All names and trademarks have been vetted by Red Hat’s legal team to be > > usable in the space. Transferring these over to Apache will not be a > > problem. > > > > Orphaned products< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#orphaned-products > > > > > > > Primary contributions to the KIE Community of projects will be made by > > engineers employed by Red Hat and IBM. IBM is a leading vendor in the > > Business Automation space. Red Hat up until the second half of 2022 was > > also a major vendor in the same space. While Red Hat is no longer pursuing > > the Business Automation market it does still need to augment the > > capabilities of its other products with workflow, rules, and event > > technologies in a way that aligns with Red Hat’s target audiences and Red > > Hat’s strategic direction. Red Hat will continue to pursue the development > > around CNCF serverless workflow, which will be built upon Kogito and > > Drools. There is no risk of these projects being orphaned by either company. > > > > Inexperience with Open Source:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#inexperience-with-open-source > > > > > > > All initial committers are well-versed in Open Source development. > > > > Length of Incubation:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#length-of-incubation > > > > > > > Incubation should take somewhere between six to twelve months. > > > > Homogenous Developers:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#homogenous-developers > > > > > > > The list of initial project committers includes developers from IBM and > > Red Hat, all from different locations around the world. > > > > Reliance on Salaried Developers:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#reliance-on-salaried-developers > > > > > > > Currently, the list of developers is from IBM and Red Hat. We’re hoping by > > moving to Apache we can grow this list of developers outside of those two > > companies. All the projects within KIE have been around for a long time and > > have a large user base. Developers have come and gone over the years, but > > the initial list of developers is coming from Red Hat and IBM. > > > > Relationships with Other Apache Products:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#relationships-with-other-apache-products > > > > > > > The Apache Camel project has had integrations with KIE Community projects, > > namely jBPM and Drools. Camel K also has integrations with Kogito. Kogito > > and Camel also have integrations with Quarkus. Kogito is built using Apache > > Maven. > > > > An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#a-excessive-fascination-with-the-apache-brand > > > > > > > We have looked at both the Apache Software Foundation and the Eclipse > > Foundation and have decided that Apache would be a better place for the > > code base. Red Hat, and IBM, have worked with both foundations and continue > > to do so. > > > > > > While the Apache brand is indeed well known and has great recognition, > > we’re looking more toward the neutral nature of being at Apache and keeping > > the project alive in an environment that is not solely controlled by a > > single entity. > > > > Documentation< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#documentation > > > > > > > Kogito Documentation: > > https://docs.kogito.kie.org/latest/html_single/#con-kogito-automation_kogito-docs > > > > Drools Documentation: https://www.drools.org/learn/documentation.html > > > > jBPM Documentation: > > https://docs.jbpm.org/7.73.0.Final/jbpm-docs/html_single/ > > > > Drools DMN Engine landing page: https://www.drools.org/learn/dmn.html > > > > DMN Specification: https://www.omg.org/spec/DMN > > > > BPMN Specification: https://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/2.0/ > > > > Cloud Events Specification: https://github.com/cloudevents/spec > > > > Initial Source< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#initial-source > > > > > > > All the code will be coming from the KIE Community GitHub repo at > > https://github.com/kiegroup. There will be multiple repositories > > including examples and code bases for Drools, jBPM, and Kogito. > > > > Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#source-and-intellectual-property-submission-plan > > > > > > > * Source code within GitHub > > > > * Domains: kie.org, kogito.org, kogito.kie.org, blog.kie.org, jbpm.org, > > drools.org, bpmn.new, dmn.new, pmml.new, and sandbox.kie.org are all > > currently owned by Red Hat > > > > External Dependencies:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#external-dependencies > > > > > > > There are some LGPL, and Eclipse dependencies for some of the projects in > > the test or provided scopes of the Maven poms. For example jdt dependencies > > for the Eclipse plugins, logback, junit, and similar. Hibernate jars are > > LGPL as well, those are in jBPM. > > > > Cryptography:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#cryptography > > > > > > > There are some calls to the JVM vault, for process migration. > > > > Required Resources< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#required-resources > > > > > Mailing lists:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#mailing-lists > > > > > > > * priv...@kie.incubator.apache.org > > > > * d...@kie.incubator.apache.org > > > > * comm...@kie.incubator.apache.org > > > > Subversion Directory:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#subversion-directory > > > > > > > None > > > > Git Repositories:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#git-repositories > > > > > > > Assuming we can continue to use GitHub, though it may need to migrate to > > be beneath the Apache Organization. > > > > Issue Tracking:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#issue-tracking > > > > > > > If possible, we would like to use GitHub issues. > > > > Other Resources:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#other-resources > > > > > > > None. > > > > Initial Committers< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#initial-committers > > > > > > > > > List of GitHub names: > > > > > > Name > > > > GitHub Username > > > > Apache CLA > > > > Apache Email > > > > Mario Fusco > > > > mariofusco > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > tkobayas > > > > TRUE > > > > > > Matteo Mortari > > > > tarilabs > > > > TRUE > > > > > > Tristan Radisson > > > > radtriste > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Gabriele Cardosi > > > > gitgabrio > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Edoardo Vacchi > > > > evacchi > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Paolo Bizzarri > > > > pibizza > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Cristiano Nicolai > > > > cristianonicolai > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Michael Biarnés Kiefer > > > > mbiarnes > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Enrique González Martínez > > > > elguardian > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Vani Haripriya Mudadla > > > > vaniharipriya > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > lightguard > > > > TRUE > > > > lightguar...@apache.org > > > > Gonzalo Muñoz > > > > gmunozfe > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti > > > > fjtirado > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Helber Belmiro > > > > hbelmiro > > > > TRUE > > > > > > Antonio Fernandez Alhambra > > > > afalhambra > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Abhijit Humbe > > > > abhijithumbe > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Martin Weiler > > > > martinweiler > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Enrique Mingorance Cano > > > > ginxo > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Tiago Dolphine > > > > tiagodolphine > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Alex Porcelli > > > > porcelli > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Kris Verlaenen > > > > krisv > > > > TRUE > > > > (requested kr...@apache.org) > > > > Pere Fernández > > > > pefernan > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Jan Stastny > > > > jstastny-cz > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Jozef Marko > > > > jomarko > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Walter Medvedeo > > > > wmedvede > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Kennedy Bowers > > > > kbowers-redhat > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Roberto Oliveira > > > > rgdoliveira > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Andrea Lamparelli > > > > lampajr > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Bai Xiaofeng > > > > bxf12315 > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Ruben Romero Montes > > > > ruromero > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Filippe Spolti > > > > spolti > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Massimiliano Dessì > > > > desmax74 > > > > TRUE > > > > > > Tiago Bento > > > > tiagobento > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Yeser Amer > > > > yesamer > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Guilherme Caponetto > > > > caponetto > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Paulo Martins > > > > paulovmr > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Thiago Lugli > > > > thiagoelg > > > > FALSE > > > > > > William Antônio Siqueira > > > > jesuino > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Fabrizio Antonangeli > > > > fantonangeli > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Valentino Pellegrino > > > > vpellegrino > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Ricardo Zanini > > > > ricardozanini > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Tibor Zimányi > > > > baldimir > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Eder Ignatowicz > > > > ederign > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Mark Proctor > > > > mdproctor > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Thiago Lugli > > > > thiagoelg > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Luiz João Motta > > > > ljmotta > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Jaime Enriquez > > > > inodeman > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Luca Molteni > > > > lucamolteni > > > > FALSE > > > > > > Davide Salerno > > > > davidesalerno > > > > TRUE > > > > > > Edson Tirelli > > > > etirelli > > > > FALSE > > > > Sponsors< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#sponsors > > > > > > > IBM and Red Hat are the sponsors for the project. > > > > Champion:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#champion > > > > > > > Brian Proffitt > > > > Nominated Mentors:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#nominated-mentors > > > > > > > Brian Proffitt > > > > Claus Ibsen > > > > Andrea Cosentino > > > > Sponsoring Entity:< > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal#sponsoring-entity > > > > > > > Apache Camel > > > > > > Jason Porter > > Software Engineer > > He/Him/His > > > > IBM > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
