-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David Bandel wrote:
> On Apr 7, 2005 2:14 AM, Roger Oberholtzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 05:00, Collins Richey wrote: >> >>> From: Michael Scottaline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Linux tips >>> and tricks <[email protected]> Date: Apr 6, 2005 8:49 >>> PM Subject: Re: semi-informal survey for those using nvidia >>> cards >>> >>> [ fine signature ] >>> >>> "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has >>> endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to >>> forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei >>> >>> A really good quote, but unfortunately quite un-PC. It's not >>> really accepted practice these days to tout that God endowed us >>> with anything, most especially not in courthouses <grin>. >> >> And there are those who claim that these human characteristics >> are courtesy of the guy downstairs. Or, at least, our desire to >> use them in certain ways originates there. Never a simple >> problem. It's not sense, reason, and intellect which is from Satan. Unfortunately, he seems very adept at corrupting something good with a very small twist. Sense, reason, and intellect are gifts which can be good, and can be distorted. Ever hear of the term "garbage in, garbage out"? When reason loses all foundation in anything greater than that of our own observation and guesswork (see "circular reasoning"), problems result. The conflict is not "faith" versus "thought", but "God-based" or "Human-based" religion. Christianity is an example of a God-based religion (or belief system). Humanism (covers much of the "scientific" community) is the primary human-based religion (or belief system). Each requires a significant amount of faith. Christianity requires faith that God exists, is good, and loves His creation more than any of us could imagine... so much so that even in our willful disregard for the good of others or Him, which separates us from fellowship with God, He sent Jesus to endure suffering, death, and hell in our stead. Love and care for others, selflessness, self-control, with acknowledgement and thanks to God. These are the basic tenets of the Bible, which is the foundation of truth for this religion. As such, they believe that God created the earth, as detailed in Genesis chapters 1 and 2. They believe that all mankind is sinful (Romans 3:23) and that a price must be paid for that sin, to allow us to commune with God, and the cost is our life (Romans 6:23). They also believe that Jesus came, taught us how to live though a sinless life, and then paid the price for our sin with His life, proving victory over death by raising to life again (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John... pick one and look near the end). They also believe that Jesus will come again to separate His followers from those who are "jaundiced" and unbelieving, destination: Heaven or Lake of Fire, respectively. Regardless of who has failed these tenets in the name of God, the principles remain the same. Some examples of people who have done attrocious things in the name of God: Hitler, Crusaders, Usama, etc.... Humanism requires faith in the scientific community. While humanists will tell you otherwise, this is a significant step of faith. Particularly true since there exists a history of biased, directed research, sometimes with incomplete, incorrect, or even falsified data to prove the hypothesis set out. While there are many reputable, and even Christian members of the scientific community, some (or much) of this research has among its hypothesis that God cannot exist. Evolution and the big bang theories, both currently taught as fact in public education, are examples of this research. They portray an alternative to creationism which presupposes the non-existence of a diety, regardless of missing data, data suggesting the opposite, and the question "where did the explosive matter come from?" While there are many scientists with integrity, seeking truth, it appears the majority has been lead to believe that there can be no diety in science. Unfortunately, since there are so many to choose from, one simply needs to find research which supports what one wants to believe. - From the idea that we come from apes, humanists are able to trivialize the lives of those who are inconvenient, like unborn children, aging, and mentally or physically handicapped people (see Terri Shiavo). They will also trivialize this description since it doesn't show them in a good light, and Right is determined differently for everyone, according to humanism, because we are what's important. > > No, I suspect it has more to do with whatever diety's disciples > have done for themselves and to the rest of the world, and the > courts have become as jaundiced as many of us "non-believers". Jaundiced in understandable, considering some of the misguided people who somewhat miss the point. That is still, however, your choice. We are all responsible for our choices, which is the flip-side to free-will. > > Every religion I've had contact with has always preached: > tolerance, love, servitude. I know of no Christian church which teaches "tolerance". Tolerance is not a tenet of the Bible. Love is the closest thing, as is described below. Tolerance in its popular definition is more "acceptance", both of a person and their behavior. The Christian church teaches "Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin" which is not good enough for modern-day "tolerance" preachers. > Every religious fanatic that invokes the name of a diety, however, > tends to display intolerance (because how could you _not_ believe > as they do), hate (historically, the most protracted wars, the > heinous actions were all in the name of a diety), and they expect > you to serve them (vice their diety). It's one thing to identy that which is wrong. It something else to know how to respond to it. It is yet something quite different to justify awful, hateful acts under the guise of religion. The guilt of all mankind is selfishness. Left unchecked, it leads to greed, pride, and everything they become or produce. > > No, I expect little of hateful, close-minded, hypocritical folks. > And once the name of a diety has been invoked, you can forget using > reason. For some, I would agree with you. However, that does not preclude the "diety" from rational and valuable discourse. - ------------------------------- Paul's letter to the church in Galatia -- 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23) Paul's first letter to the church in Corinth describes Love: 4 Love is patient and is kind; love doesn?t envy. Love doesn?t brag, is not proud, 5 doesn?t behave itself inappropriately (rude), doesn?t seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil (keeps no record of wrongs); 6 doesn?t rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. (I Corinthians 13:4) Paul's letter to the church in Rome: 21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice (or, a propitiation), through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God?s forbearance; 26 to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:23) 20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification, and the result of eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) - -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Server Appliances * Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics * Network Consulting, Integration & Support * Web Integration and E-Business -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCVUPaso9lqh4MragRAi/gAKDS8nxU11qs2C+h1QuUmYK11tNL8wCgydJi ZgVI08+tUEfl0zBiiHXkMjw= =SlBD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ [email protected] Unsub/Pause/Etc : http://mail.linux-sxs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/general
