On 15 May 2013 21:41, Fabio Erculiani <lx...@gentoo.org> wrote: > Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're > currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the > features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained > state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo > developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our > tree.
It's well known that Gnome is part and parcel of the whole vertical integration circus. > And (and!) how does all this fit together with eudev? If the idea is > to either put logind in udev (thus, not creating a separate logind > ebuild), it means that eudev is already a dead end for GNOME users, > unless the eudev team is going to provide logind as well. I'm not sure what the eudev team is planning, but it's been working well so far for me. And since I don't use Gnome, it's not an issue as long as other desktop environments are not making the same mistakes. > I don't want to start a flamewar here, I was the one who called > Lennart software lennartware, but science is science, and a reality > check had to be done: at some near point in the future, our users will > be forced to replace udev/eudev with systemd. Like it. Or not. This isn't science. And unless you use Gnome, I don't see why we would be forced to use systemd. KDE, Xfce, LXDE and Razor-qt are still happy to support non-systemd operating systems. The way I see it is that Gnome is making itself more of a non-option on Gentoo, Slackware and BSD systems. > While I successfully use both openrc and systemd, I _do_ think that > (and expect to see) more and more users (and developers) will be > switching to systemd. > Is there anything we can do? Besides "being prepared", I don't think so. > Do we control upstreams? No, sorry. We don't control upstreams, but we still have choices. At this point I only see Gnome and udev upstreams who are forcing their users to use systemd. (There may be other projects too that I'm not aware of.) > So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world? > (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their own > reality check. We say that Gentoo stands for choice. That is why we should resist allowing systemd (and Gnome) to take those choices away with their mistaken idea of vertical integration. We do have other options. -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer
