If I may ask, isn't usage by 27 packages ample grounds on its own to make it a global use flag?
This is one of the questions I noticed on the ebuild quiz, and there the ballpark is around 5 packages sharing a use flag. we're way over that mark. my two cents. On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tom Wijsman <tom...@gentoo.org> wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:28:41 +0200 > Samuli Suominen <ssuomi...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > > > On 20/02/14 18:27, Tom Wijsman wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:26:18 +0200 > > > Samuli Suominen <ssuomi...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > > > >> On 20/02/14 10:47, Steev Klimaszewski wrote: > > >>> On Thu, 2014-02-20 at 10:40 +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote: > > >>>> On 20/02/14 09:44, Steev Klimaszewski wrote: > > >>>>> On Thu, 2014-02-20 at 07:55 +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote: > > >>>>>> On 20/02/14 00:23, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > >>>>>>> Following up to today's QA meeting: The gtk3 USE flag is used > > >>>>>>> by 27 packages, so I suggest making it a global flag: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> gtk3 - Add support for x11-libs/gtk+ (The GIMP Toolkit) > > >>>>>>> version 3 > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Ulrich > > >>>>>> that would suggest it's fine to use, and is anything but > > >>>>>> temporary > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -1 from here > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> MATE desktop (which I hope to bring in to Portage soon) can be > > >>>>> built against gtk+ 2 or gtk+ 3, and upstream supports doing > > >>>>> both, so +1 from me. Just because gtk+ 3 is the latest, does > > >>>>> not mean it's the greatest, and I really wish people would > > >>>>> realize that newest != bestest. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> Then you pick whatever is best supported for MATE, and ship it > > >>>> using that. Later when they have completed their support for > > >>>> GTK+-3, and it's the best supported, you ship that. It's not > > >>>> rocket science. > > >>>> > > >>> OR, since I'm the maintainer, I decide that I'm willing to deal > > >>> with both, instead of you telling me that I need to pick one or > > >>> the other. Upstream says both are supported and viable, and I'm > > >>> willing to deal with the headaches. Just because you're > > >>> unwilling doesn't mean others aren't. kthx. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Bye bye distribution level consistency :-( > > >> > > >> It's sad that few stubborn developers can do that. > > >> > > >> - Samuli > > >> > > > "'Ey! Have you heard about it. Gentoo doesn't provide X with support > > > for Y, then what are their USE flags even for; what a shame, ..." > > > > > > If people want to support and use multiple things, let them do so. > > > It is pretty much what Gentoo and its philosophy are about; which > > > somewhat can be summarized as providing choices such that we fit > > > the users' need, and not force our one true way upon them... > > > > > > Greetings from someone who runs GNOME 3 and MATE simultaneously; > > > you can intentionally break it, but why would you? It takes away > > > our happiness. On the other hand, there's the part where you want > > > to break it for a reason, perhaps for your happiness; but then I'd > > > like to hear why. > > > > > > > So, no more setting USE="gtk" and assuming the best packaged software > > will be get installed, be it with what version of the toolkit, 1, 2 > > or 3 > > What is "best"? What you would deem best, could be worst for the user. > > > Instead, now you have to selectively do the maintainers job for > > figuring out which one is the best supported one > > The maintainer can use IUSE flag defaults for this; but, there are > users that want to control which toolkit is installed. Going further, > they want to decide which toolkit the software is built with. > > > Despite already picking up a modern theme with both GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ > > 3.x looks, now you might end up with half-crippled software just > > because some stubborn people choose the looks, not the functionality, > > to be their motivation > > You need to mask that as a packager. > > > Such people really don't deserve to own a packager status if they > > can't take the time to determine / examine the package's best > > supported graphical toolkit > > What is "best"? If upstream provides both and claims they both are > well supported, I consider both are. > > > If multiple ones with similar feature set is supported, then the > > latest toolkit is preferred > > What is "preferred"? What you prefer can be different than the user. > > > But seems like I'm repeating common sense which the GNOME guideline > > layed out long ago > > The GNOME guideline fits just the GNOME team and developers whom follow > that; however, in the bigger picture, there are maintainers that do not > follow that and do something different. Looking at the tracker [1]; it > appears that it is more common for such a bug to be marked as INVALID > or WONTFIX, than it is to be marked as FIXED. > > As a result of this, the users get an inconsistent USE flag presented. > > The "common sense" is just another wording of "opinion" here; if it > wants to be real "common sense" shared amongst almost everyone, it'll > need a bit more than a guideline. > > [1]: > https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL%20blocked%3A420493 > > -- > With kind regards, > > Tom Wijsman (TomWij) > Gentoo Developer > > E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org > GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D > GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D > >
