Hi Michael et al, I've been told that a diatom bloom would be harmless as well as drawing down CO2 and increasing albedo - so how would one trigger a massive bloom? Could one use Salter's wave-powered pumps? Doesn't sea water now contain a high level of CO2, which is why we are concerned about ocean acidification? I think far more likely that the growth of diatoms will be limited by silicon in the sea water, in which case this would have to be added, preferably in a form to reduce acidification.
If there were unwanted side-effects from a diatom bloom, would there be any safe way to remove the diatoms? Cheers, John -- On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Chris <chris.viv...@cefas.co.uk> wrote: > Michael, > > > While deep seawater in the ocean does indeed contain a great deal of > nutrients, it also contains high levels of dissolved inorganic carbon > derived from the degradation of sinking organic matter generated in surface > waters. Thus, bringing deep seawater to the surface will lead to outgassing > of CO2 to the atmosphere that would greatly reduce if not eliminate the > climate benefits of the schemes as indicated in the papers below: > > Dutreuil, S., Bopp, L. and Tagliabue, A. (2009) Impact of enhanced > vertical mixing on marine biogeochemistry: Lessons for geo-engineering and > natural variability. Biogeosciences Vol. 6, 901-912. > > *http://www.biogeosciences.net/6/901/2009/bg-6-901-2009.pdf*<http://www.biogeosciences.net/6/901/2009/bg-6-901-2009.pdf> > > Oschlies, A., Pahlow, M., Yool, A. and Matear, R. J. (2010) *Climate > engineering by artificial ocean upwelling - channelling the sorcerer's > apprentice* Geophysical Research Letters, 37, L04701. > > *http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2009GL041961/abstract*<http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2009GL041961/abstract> > > Yool, A., Shepherd, J. G., Bryden, H. L. and Oschlies, A. (2009), Low > efficiency of nutrient translocation for enhancing oceanic uptake of carbon > dioxide, Journal of Geophysical research - Oceans 114, C08009, > > *http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2008JC004792/abstract*<http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2008JC004792/abstract> > > Note also that bringing up deep seawater for other purposes such as Ocean > Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) and Deep Water Source Cooling/Seawater Air > Conditioning has the same problem > > Chris. > > On Tuesday, 15 January 2013 22:21:14 UTC, Michael Hayes wrote: > >> Also Peter, >> >> The 'Perpetual Salt Fountain' is a great addition to any large scale >> algae operation. >> >> http://www.terrapub.co.jp/**journals/JO/pdf/6003/60030563.**pdf<http://www.terrapub.co.jp/journals/JO/pdf/6003/60030563.pdf> >> >> *"Deep seawater in the ocean contains a great deal of nutrients. Stommel >> et al. have >> proposed the notion of a “perpetual salt fountain” (Stommel et al., >> 1956). They noted >> the possibility of a permanent upwelling of deep seawater with no >> additional external >> energy source. If we can cause deep seawater to upwell extensively, we >> can achieve an >> ocean farm. We have succeeded in measuring the upwelling velocity by an >> experiment >> in the Mariana Trench area using a special measurement system. A 0.3 m >> diameter, >> 280 m long soft pipe made of PVC sheet was used in the experiment. The >> measured >> data, a verification experiment, and numerical simulation results, gave >> an estimate >> of upwelling velocity of 212 m/day."* >> >> I've realized that the basic configuration of the tube can be converted >> into a large through put 'trash' pump, with minor mods, and powered by wave >> energy conversion. Deployed on a large scale, this system >> would significantly increase the microbial loop rate of production and thus >> produce a carbon sink multiplier for any macro algae farm system (not to >> mention an increase in marine life at all levels). Deep water C4 plant >> farms (gyres are lest problematic for production placement) can be scaled >> up to 'geoengineering' relevance with possible self funding commercial >> activities. Littoral deployments are possible but the artificial up welling >> would need a corresponding artifical down welling to prevent dead zones >> down current from the up welling. >> >> Here is a link to a few thoughts Mark and I exchanged some time ago. >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/**topic/geoengineering/** >> wyLXSagkvsw/discussion<https://groups.google.com/d/topic/geoengineering/wyLXSagkvsw/discussion> >> >> *"Mark Capron has proposed Ocean Afforestation within this forum going >> back to at least 09. And, much of that work is centered around diatom >> enhancement for general CCS and possible biomass harvesting for methane >> fuel production and more. C4 halophytes (1) could be an important >> enhancement to that initial ocean afforestation strategy."* >> >> I'm glad to see this issue come back up in this group. IMHO, Ocean >> Afforestation is our best long term hope to stabilize the climate and >> adjust the ocean pH. Initial math indicated that up to 6% of the earth >> needed to be put into production to off set current CO2 emissions. Wide >> spread use of the Perpetual Salt Fountain System may reduce the needed area >> substantially >> . >> I hope this helped. >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:29:54 PM UTC-8, MarkCapron wrote: >> >>> Peter, >>> >>> The calculations in "Negative carbon via Ocean Afforestation" are based >>> on actual macroalgae growth rates with whatever CO2 transfer and nutrients >>> are naturally available. Either may be limiting. >>> >>> Your experience would appear to confirm our seaweed forests can be >>> havens of high pH for critters in need of pre-industrial pH for shell >>> formation. >>> >>> Mark E. Capron, PE >>> Oxnard, California >>> www.PODenergy.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: [geo] Ocean based algal growth: rate of CO2 transfer >>> From: Peter Flynn <peter...@ualberta.ca> >>> Date: Wed, January 09, 2013 6:36 pm >>> To: geoengi...@googlegroups.com >>> >>> I am joining this discussion late, so I hope I am not covering ground >>> already discussed. >>> >>> Some years back a graduate student and I looked at a conceptual scheme >>> to grow algae and sink them into the deep ocean, using increased salinity >>> from evaporation as the “pump”. We found that the rate limiting step was >>> not sunlight or evaporation, but rather the transport of carbon dioxide >>> from the atmosphere into the ocean. This was, as I recall, 10 times slower >>> than the potential rate of growth of the algae. >>> >>> We came to understand why agitation and CO2 addition are included in >>> some commercial algal farms. >>> >>> Peter Flynn >>> >>> Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. >>> Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers >>> Department of Mechanical Engineering >>> University of Alberta >>> peter...@ualberta.ca >>> cell: 928 451 4455 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> geoengineerin...@googlegroups.**com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/geoengineering?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en> >>> . >>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/geoengineering/-/HQZJQCJdd7gJ. > > To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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