The issue of energy distribution (getting the energy to shore) seems to be a key operational and financial consideration. Having both the profits from wind/wave/otec/solar energy conversion and MCB would help overcome the high cost of the gear while establishing the largest possible cooling footprint.
If this storm mitigation grid were to use hydraulic lines as the energy distribution grid, those lines could be outfitted with forward osmosis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_osmosis>units which would allow for shore deliver of both energy and freshwater. We need both. Best, Michael On Saturday, March 1, 2014 5:07:09 PM UTC-8, Greg Rau wrote: > > Why not (also) use beefed up hydrokinetic electricity generation to take > advantage of (and to dissipate) the storm energy imparted to the ocean? > Prof. Salter might want to weigh here. Both approaches would seem to > benefit if there were cost effective ways of storing the large but > relatively short term quantity of electricity produced, e.g. pumped water > or pressurized air storage(?) > Greg > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Latham <john.l...@manchester.ac.uk <javascript:>> > *To:* "jaco...@stanford.edu <javascript:>" > <jaco...@stanford.edu<javascript:>>; > "Hawkins, Dave" <dhaw...@nrdc.org <javascript:>>; Jim Fleming < > jfle...@colby.edu <javascript:>>; Jim Fournier > <j...@planetwork.net<javascript:>>; > Lee Buric <l...@planetwork.net <javascript:>> > *Cc:* Geoengineering <geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> > *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2014 9:34 AM > *Subject:* [geo] Alternative to Wind turbines as hurricane tamers? > > Hello All, > > The wind-turbine idea is an interesting one, and clearly should be studied > further. > > However, we favour an approach, described in the attached, recently > published > paper on hurricane weakening via Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB), in which > MCB ocean-surface-waters cooling, in regions where hurricanes spawn, > stifles the growth of some hurricanes, and inhibits the creation of others. > > [We prefer to weaken their early growth or render them stillborn] > > Best Wishes, John. [lat...@ucar.edu <javascript:>] > > > > John Latham > Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 > Email: lat...@ucar.edu <javascript:> or > john.l...@manchester.ac.uk<javascript:> > Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 > or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 > http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham > ________________________________________ > From: geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> [ > geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>] on behalf of Mark Z. Jacobson [ > jaco...@stanford.edu <javascript:>] > Sent: 28 February 2014 16:02 > To: Hawkins, Dave; Jim Fleming > Cc: Geoengineering > Subject: Re: [geo] Wind turbines as hurricane tamers? > > Dear all, the paper is located at > > > http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/WindHurricane/WindHurric.html > > The turbines would be installed primarily to generate electric power > year around and would pay for themselves over time doing this. There is > a cost analysis in the paper assuming 1-2 hurricanes striking a given > area over 30 years. The cost benefit of the turbines per kWh averaged > over this time is much smaller than the air pollution cost reduction > benefit, which is why the primary purpose is to generate > electricity/offset fossil fuels. Hurricane dampening would be a > secondary "free" benefit, unlike sea walls, which cost $30 billion for > one city but don't pay for themselves or reduce wind speed (only storm > surge). > > Sincerely, > Mark Jacobson > > > > On 2/28/14 7:07 AM, Hawkins, Dave wrote: > > True enough. Suggests that hurricane taming would be at best a > secondary factor in size and location of offshore wind farms. One could do > a probabilistic analysis and see if the hurricane taming potential had > noticeable economic value. > > > > Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. > > > > > > On Feb 28, 2014, at 3:56 PM, "Jim Fleming" <jfle...@colby.edu<javascript:> > <mailto:jflem...@colby.edu <javascript:>>> wrote: > > > > This analysis assumes you know where "upstream" of a city actually is. > See the attached map of Florida landfalling hurricane trajectories.<tracks > of hurricanes.jpg> > > > > James Fleming > > On Sabbatical > > STS Program > > Colby College > > Web: http://www.colby.edu/profile/jfleming<http://web.colby.edu/jfleming > > > > > > Toxic Airs (March 2014) > > http://www.upress.pitt.edu/BookDetails.aspx?bookId=36392 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Hawkins, Dave > > <dhaw...@nrdc.org<javascript:> > <mailto:dhawk...@nrdc.org <javascript:>>> wrote: > > Interesting analysis suggesting an action that is both a type of > geo-engineering and emissions mitigation. > > > > > > Abstract of Nature Climate Change paper > > > > Hurricanes are causing increasing damage to many coastal regions > worldwide. Offshore wind turbines can provide substantial clean electricity > year-round, but can they also mitigate hurricane damage while avoiding > damage to themselves? This study uses an advanced climate–weather computer > model that correctly treats the energy extraction of wind turbines to > examine this question. It finds that large turbine arrays (300+ GW > installed capacity) may diminish peak near-surface hurricane wind speeds by > 25–41 m s−1 (56–92 mph) and storm surge by 6–79%. Benefits occur whether > turbine arrays are placed immediately upstream of a city or along an > expanse of coastline. The reduction in wind speed due to large arrays > increases the probability of survival of even present turbine designs. The > net cost of turbine arrays (capital plus operation cost less cost reduction > from electricity generation and from health, climate, and hurricane damage > avoidance) is estimated to be less than today’s fossil fuel electricity > generation net cost in these regions and less than the net cost of sea > walls used solely to avoid storm surge damage. > > > > REFERENCES: > > > > * Mark Z Jacobson, Cristina L Archer, Willett Kempton, Taming > hurricanes with arrays of o ffshore wind turbines, Nature Climate Change, > 2014, DOI: 10.1038/NCLIMATE2120<http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nclimate2120> > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "geoengineering" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to geoengineering+unsub...@googlegroups.com <javascript:><mailto: > geoengineering% <javascript:>2bunsu...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > > To post to this group, send email to > > geoengi...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > <mailto:geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > Mark Z. Jacobson > Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering > Director, Atmosphere/Energy Program Phone: 650-723-6836 > Stanford University Fax: 650-723-7058 > Yang & Yamazaki Environ. and Energy Bldg jaco...@stanford.edu<javascript:> > 473 Via Ortega, Room 397 Twitter: @mzjacobson > Stanford, CA 94305-4020 www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/ > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineering+unsub...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineering+unsub...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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