Broadly speaking I don’t think the direct delivery cost of material
to the stratosphere is a significant factor influencing any decision
to deploy. (Vs, for example, the expected geopolitical ramifications
of a choice, the projected impacts, or the costs associated with any
fund to compensate those who believe that they will be harmed by
deployment). Aircraft have consistently wound up as the cheapest
approach to deliver material based on today’s technology, though of
course that could change.
Also relevant in thinking about alternate delivery mechanisms though
is that aircraft engines are currently manufactured by only a few
companies all in a handful of countries, and none of these
manufacturers would sell any engine to anyone without at least tacit
approval by the country they are in… that greatly limits the number
of countries that are capable of deploying, so alternative engines or
delivery modes may be more important in thinking about governance
challenges associated with who is actually capable of initiating a
deployment that has the potential to be scaled and sustained.
*From:*geoengineering@googlegroups.com
<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
<geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of
*robertgch...@gmail.com <mailto:robertgch...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, November 5, 2023 1:56 PM
*To:* Andrew Lockley <andrew.lock...@gmail.com>
<mailto:andrew.lock...@gmail.com>; Gilles de Brouwer
<gdebrou...@gmail.com> <mailto:gdebrou...@gmail.com>
*Cc:* healthy-planet-action-coalition
<healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>; Planetary
Restoration <planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>
<mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>; geoengineering
<geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: [geo] Re: Hansen Vs. Mann - Is Global Warming Linear
Or Exponential? - CleanTechnica
Can someone do the following calculations? How many shells? How
much material would they consume each year? What happens to the
shell casings once they've delivered their load? What environmental
impact would these discarded shell casings have and in particular
would they contain any environmentally undesirable materials? What
would be necessary for this to receive social licence?
Regards
Robert
On 05/11/2023 18:22, Andrew Lockley wrote:
I've already looked at this. The meteor missile (modern) and
blood hound (cold war) use ram rockets. Nammo make ram artillery,
and there's Chinese manufacturers, too. It's not inexpensive to
start these ramjets, considering rockets or barrel wear. Coil
guns might be viable. There's manufacturers eg velontra.com
<http://velontra.com/> making small hypersonic jets, which don't
require a hard start.
Ballistic flight makes recovery difficult.
On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, 18:15 Gilles de Brouwer,
<gdebrou...@gmail.com <mailto:gdebrou...@gmail.com>> wrote:
A low cost SAI option?
Regarding the trillions or billions to do SAI geoengineering,
consider this option:
Watch "How ramjets may change the role of artillery on the
battlefield" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/0vIPNElDkns?si=9Z_mUQUXBm-4dBxF
<https://youtu.be/0vIPNElDkns?si=9Z_mUQUXBm-4dBxF>
At 4:21 you can see the 150km range parabolic trajectory goes
as high as 105km altitude!
Maybe Iowa battleship 16 inch guns with this ramjet tech
could send stuff to orbit.
Or could this be a low cost SAI geoengineering option?
1. How much would it cost to refurbish and send these old
battleships to the Arctic and Antarctic waters and deliver to
much higher altitudes? The armor plating would make the
battleships iceberg damage resistant.
2. How much longer would the particles stay at useful altitudes?
3. Would they stay in place much longer with little wind at
these very high altitudes?
4. Would it be more effective than aircraft delivered SAI?
Note from the Iowa Class Wikipedia page: "...all four are
museum ships part of non-profit maritime museums across the US."
Gilles
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 5:16 PM Jim Baird
<jim.ba...@gwmitigation.com
<mailto:jim.ba...@gwmitigation.com>> wrote:
From the Physics and Economics of Thermodynamics
Geoengineering, reference 77 of the Healthy Climate
Action Coalition Petition to World Leaders: The Case for
Urgent Direct Climate Cooling, The cost of removing 1139
Gt of CO2 with this technology (Negative Emissions CO2
OTEC) would therefore be $175 trillion. CDR technology
for creating synthetic fuel from atmospheric CO2 or for
other purposes currently costs about $600 per ton, with a
goal of reducing this to below $100. [48] So, a goal of
returning atmospheric CO2 levels to preindustrial from a
2054 level of 1577 Gt is likely to cost at a minimum $114
trillion.
*From:* healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
*On Behalf Of *Gilles de Brouwer
*Sent:* November 4, 2023 4:21 PM
*To:* H simmens <hsimm...@gmail.com
<mailto:hsimm...@gmail.com>>
*Cc:* healthy-planet-action-coalition
<healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>;
via NOAC Meetings <noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com>>; Planetary
Restoration <planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>>;
geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com
<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>
*Subject:* Re: Hansen Vs. Mann - Is Global Warming Linear
Or Exponential? - CleanTechnica
My comment left on the article:
Steve I like your writing, but "Trillions" is obviously
wrong. Billions is more realistic even with expensive
new high altitude aircraft, but maybe much less expensive
with a small fleet of specialty airships.
All the SAI geoengineering risks are scare mongering
without data to back it up and such dogma unscientific
opinions from "scientists" are damaging to science as an
institution. AI, for example genetic algorithms or
better could design an SAI strategy that minimizes the
negatives, as it's an optimization problem with infinite
variables which is why progress is so slow. Coupling
computational models with small scale real atmosphere
experiments with full public data access for review is
critical to make a smart decision to potentially avoid
billions starving, cooking, and/or dying of thirst, or
migrating.
Thanks,
Gilles de Brouwer
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 3:10 PM H simmens
<hsimm...@gmail.com <mailto:hsimm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This article provides the author an opportunity to
declare war on Geo engineering by for example
claiming that scientists estimate that Geoengineering
will cost “on the order of tens of trillions of
dollars”.
Nice to know that we can count on the media to be
fair and balanced.
Herb
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/03/hansen-vs-mann-is-global-warming-linear-or-exponential/
<https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/03/hansen-vs-mann-is-global-warming-linear-or-exponential/>
Herb Simmens
Author of /A Climate Vocabulary of the Future/
“A SciencePoem and an Inspiration.” Kim Stanley Robinson
@herbsimmens
HerbSimmens.com
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