Hi Will,

The day may come when I need the precision and accuracy of rtk but today 
I mount sensor motes on vehicles, in & outside of buildings, on a fence 
on a beach in Florida - places where a location accuracy within 5 meters 
seems adequate. I usually have open sky and the Garmin seems to hold its 
own for now but I see your point. The sensor motes are small, 25 x 50 mm 
with a AA battery but not *that* small.

They operate in a mesh (ZigBee) with base station or star configuration 
(WiFi) with off-the-shelf access point(s).

On board sensors include temperature, humidity, light (photo-detector); 
other analog inputs are used for corrosion, wetness, pH, potential for 
oxygen and aerosol particulate.

Motes are connected to remote web portals through local cell 
phone-connected gateways with  but each has onboard memory and is 
capable of store and forward.

Current deployments are mostly static although vehicles come and go on a 
regular basis.

The Fuller projection is a convenient way for me to describe an 
icosahedral-vicenary (base 20)  framework but octahedral-octal and 
tetrahedral-quaternary work too. Octahedral-octal is especially helpful 
for those with a traditional Cartesian orientation.


  - Brian



Will King wrote:
> Brian
> 
> I'd approach this from the bottom up.
> 
> You asked about gps accuracy and - I don't think your garmin would cut
> it.  Personally I would use the most accurate gps you can get which is
> rtk gps using a post processed base station (the data is processed
> using your data plus data collected at fixed reference stations
> throughout the local region).  I'd also survey your fixed sensors
> using a local projection for greatest field accuracy, converting them
> to lat/long or fuller later.
> 
> Please keep the comments coming because I'm fascinated as to why you
> are using this particular method of storing data.
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/5/08, Brian Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Michael - I'm not sure I'm distinguishing theory from practice (or
>> what's practical) - maybe this thought exercise is between the two
>> overlapping spheres.
>>
>> What's pragmatic covers a lot of stuff; my use here is utilitarian and
>> not necessarily deciding about what's "real" or "true"  - I just need a
>> tool for structuring data
>> and points and polygons are not practical for me.
>>
>> I need a simple framework to associate geo-spatial location with
>> measured attributes. Right now that framework is just a theory with a
>> pragmatic need to test it among many minds who think in geo-spatial terms
>>
>> and aren't afraid to write them down and share it with each other.
>>
>>
>>   - Brian
>>
>>
>> michael gould wrote:
>>> Brian: I wonder what is pragmatic (or do you mean practical?) about the
>>> below exercise. Pragmatics is another thing...proposed by a practicing
>>> geodesist (CS Peirce) by the way...aimed at truth testing.
>>>
>>> And then I agree with Paul (see message 2 below), that categorization is,
>>> uh, rather important to knowledge. I recommend George Lakoff's "Women,
>>> fire
>>> and dangerous things" on the subject (if bored, skip to chapter 16). By
>>> the
>>> ways categories do not need to be fixed, but can also be graded. The Pope
>>> may not be a bachelor if a fixed definition is used, however his
>>> bachelorness can be quite high all the same :-)
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:17:23 -0400
>>> From: Brian Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: [Geowanking] pragmatic exercise
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> as a pragmatic exercise allow me to start with a map and end with a
>>> database
>>> schema.
>>>
>>> begin with a Fuller projection
>>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_projection) an icosahedral framework
>>> of
>>> 20 triangular areas (actually tetrahedra to the center - but we'll leave
>>> that out for now). Each triangular area is designated a Major Triad.
>>>
>>> Each Major Triad is subdivided ** by the same base as the original sphere
>>> **
>>> into 400 Minor Triads (20^2). If the edge of a Major Triad is 8,000 km the
>>> edges of the Minor Triads are 400 km. Major Triads are designated with
>>> characters A through T; Minor Triads are designated AA through TT.
>>>
>>> Minor Triads are further subdivided into Trixels (or whatever) again by
>>> the
>>> same base creating a recursive triangular mesh capable of defining unique
>>> triangular regions 2.5 m on edge with 13 characters.
>>>
>>> Forgive me as it may be apparent by now  that I'm not a geographer. I'm an
>>> application engineer that builds wireless sensor networks and needs a
>>> place
>>> to store  data based on sensor location - sometimes static - sometimes
>>> mobile. I've got networks in the US, Pacific islands, India and Europe.
>>> This
>>> Recursive Triangular Mesh is what I'm using to do it.
>>>
>>> The database schema is nothing more than a wiki with a directory structure
>>> that looks like "D/FH/KP/ET/SA/RO" - addressing a unique area of less than
>>> 3
>>> square meters directly converted from a Lat/Long point.
>>>
>>> My other concern is the precision and accuracy of the location measuring
>>> instrument - how many digits does my GPS provide? It defines the size of
>>> the
>>> final Trixel.
>>>
>>>   - Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:30:48 -0700
>>> From: "Paul Ramsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] polarized light etc
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Message-ID:
>>>     <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Ah, you just want to discard all of Western thought back to Aristotle.
>>> And here I thought you were a wanker. (categorization)
>>>
>>> P
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:07 AM, stephen white <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> On 04/07/2008, at 5:24 PM, Will King wrote:
>>>>> So give us a sample problem, no waffle, Stephen and the pragmatists
>>>>> on geowanking will probably come up with a pretty good solution.
>>>> How can we organise all forms of captured information without
>>>> categorising? Voxels? Turing? Red dots? Layers?
>>>>
>>>> That problem has the pre-requisite that you agree that categorisation
>>>> damages information.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [..cut]
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Michael Gould
>>> Dept. Information Systems (LSI)
>>> Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castellón, Spain.
>>> email: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
>>> www.geoinfo.uji.es
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Geowanking mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking
>>>
>>>
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