Jonathan Kamens <j...@kamens.us> writes: > I hate the new Save vs. Export behavior. It is completely non-intuitive to > me, it makes > my brain stumble every time I try to do just about any of the things that I > do in GIMP > on a regular basis, and it makes most of my workflows take more thought and > more button > clicks / key presses than they used to.
I love the new behaviour :) > Here's just one use case that is completely destroyed by this change... > Loading a JPG to > edit and save back to JPG. Old way: > > 1. "gimp file.jpg". > 2. Make changes. > 3. Type ctrl-s periodically while working to save progress. > 4. Type ctrl-q. > > New way: > > 1. "gimp file.jpg". > 2. Make changes. > 3. Open File menu and select "Overwrite" (no keyboard shortcut for that!). > 4. Periodically type ctrl-e to save further progress (because for some > inexplicable > reason, once you use the "Overwrite" command it disappears and is > replaced with the > "Export" command which appears to do exactly the same thing, but this one > has a > keyboard shortcut; how does that make sense, exactly)? > 5. Type ctrl-q. > 6. GIMP tells me I have unsaved changes, even though I just saved them with > ctrl-e. > 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit. > > If I can't remember whether I've saved already or not and hit ctrl-e instead > of using > File | Overwrite, an export dialog pops up and if I just accept the file name > in it, I > am asked to confirm that I want to replace the file. Then I'm prompted for > export > settings. This is absurd. > > Here's another use case that's rendered more complex by this change... Load > an image, > edit, and save in a different format. Old way: > > 1. "gimp image.fmt1". > 2. Make changes. > 3. ctrl-shift-s. > 4. Modify extension in save dialog. … and click away the warning about flattening / losing information ;) > 5. ctrl-q. > > New way: > > 1. "gimp image.fmt1". > 2. Make changes. > 3. ctrl-shift-e. (and, mind you, I have to remember that it's shift-ctrl-e, > instead of > shift-ctrl-s like in every other freakin' application I use on either > Linux and > Windows) You can always rebind it, but is it really that difficult to remember? > 4. Modify extension in save dialog. > 5. Type ctrl-q. > 6. GIMP tells me that I have unsaved changes, even though I just saved them > with > shift-ctrl-e. This new warning replaces the old warning about flattening / losing information. > 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit. > > But what about when I do want to load an image in a non-XCF format and then > save as XCF? > Well, Ctrl-shift-e won't work for that, because the export dialog doesn't let > you export > as XCF. I see no advantage whatsoever to this restriction. So I have to > remember that in > this one special case of changing the format of an image, I have to use > ctrl-s instead > of ctrl-shift-e. For those who use GIMP a lot, XFC is the default case, not the special case. > There isn't a single thing that I use GIMP for that is made easier or faster > by this > interface change. Not one thing. I won't argue against that, but at the same time I don't see the big problem. It seems the users most likely to argue against it are those who don't do more than minor touch-ups in GIMP. Those who use GIMP more extensively, do gain a lot from the new functionality. > I understand that there is "information loss" when an image is saved as a > format other > than XCF. But the fact of the matter is that when all I'm doing is retouching > an image, > which is what I do most with gimp, I don't give a flying fig about that > "information > loss." I just want the image to save, nice and easy, when I'm done editing > it. And I > don't want to have to remember different commands for GIMP than for every > other program > I use. And I don't want the command I have to use the first time I save an > image to be > different from the command I use the next time; that just makes no sense. > Because of > this particular "feature," I can't even make this problem less onerous by > swapping the > ctrl-s/ctrl-e and shift-ctrl-s/shift-ctrl-e bindings. Brilliant! > > I understand that the GIMP developers consider XCF a "special" format which > deserves > special treatment. Well, I don't, and I'm sure there are many, many users > like me who > don't either. This change is just sticking a thumb in all of our eyes. > > You could have done this the LibreOffice way... When you try to save an image > loaded > from a format with information loss, you get a pop-up warning you and giving > you the > choice of whether to proceed or save as XCF (and also giving you the choice > to make this > warning go away in the future and just save like you told it to). This is what > LibreOffice does, e.g., when you load and then try to save a DOC file. Oh, no, please don't. Doc's at least retain _most_ of the information, now if you'd said .rtf you'd be closer to the truth … > Or you could have made this change at least a little bit less onerous by > making the save > dialog default to XCF but allowing the user to edit the extension to save to > another > format. But no, if you try to do that, it tells you, "Sorry, this dialog only > saves in > XCF format," and you have to cancel out of it and export instead. > > In my opinion, this change is a huge, huge step backward in useability. > > Jonathan Kamens The ui docs linked to in this thread argue quite well for the change, I'll just describe my main use case: I love being able to both save and export as I go along. Working on a web site, I definitely want to keep layer info available, so I need the XCF, but to see how it looks in Firefox, I need the PNG there too. So as I change something, and I want to quickly see how it looks in Firefox, I can just ctrl+shift+e (then click reload in Firefox). And it'll retain the path I last specified, so I don't have to enter anything. And as I go along, I click ctrl+s to keep the main XCF up-to-date, again without having to re-enter the path. With the old method, I would work on an XCF, then I had to save as, select PNG, ignore warnings, then, _very importantly_, I had to remember to switch back to XCF before I exited GIMP (or had a crash or power-loss or whatever), otherwise I'd lose the last steps. If I had GIMP focused but thought I had Firefox focused, and pressed Ctrl+W to close a tab, it'd take down the image instead with no warning about unsaved changes, and all the steps after I switched to "preview mode" would be lost. Pure danger. A graphical program shouldn't make you have to remember not to shoot yourself in the foot like that. best regards, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
