Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself.
Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on. Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on their BS, getting this junkware removed: https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D -Tres - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < > tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS >> >> >> Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling >> <https://stackoverflow.com/a/53528020/3196753>, the hardened runtimes >> require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be >> futile. >> > > Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand > there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME > (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact. > > >> I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of 10.9, >> so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a nightmare >> when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a bunch of custom >> steps >> <https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki/Dependencies-MacOS#108-custom-steps> >> although >> I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) >> the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that >> must be doing a lot of the work. >> > > Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx > Alex had a GIMP-specific fork: > https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp > But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already. > > As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try to > not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. And > actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to > Wikipedia). Cf. > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt > But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more > difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in > which case we'd bump up the requirement). > > There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older Windows > or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't stop us > but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support (i.e. > doesn't make our life harder), why do it? 🙂 > This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to drop > support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll just > do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. 😉 > > >> I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools >> <https://github.com/jralls/gtk-mac-bundler/pull/10>, leveraging a 3rd >> party dmg creator <https://github.com/andreyvit/create-dmg> (I've used >> app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely >> automated including signing and notarizing. >> > > I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", > "Creating > DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI. > > >> If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can offer >> that by fetching the URL from the CI logs. >> > > I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be downloaded > in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to see this, > no idea. Do you see the DMG link? > > >> I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build as >> good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a >> best-effort basis? >> > > To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means > that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. > He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years > (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many > years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! 😕). > > I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to the > repo once you are done. :-) > > Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing > macOS-related. > > Alex's notes are stellar btw. >> > > Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are > extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!). > > Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right away >> if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to have >> stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS. >> > > Cool. :-) > > Jehan > > >> -Tres >> >> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tres, >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jehan, >>>> >>>> I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his >>>> absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much >>>> different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build process >>>> via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it. >>>> >>> >>> I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's written >>> on our website. So these can be good references indeed. >>> >>> Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to >>> also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). This >>> is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build >>> repository: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>> It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same >>> repository. >>> >>> As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called >>> CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab >>> CI machines). Builds are there: >>> https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build >>> >>> Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, which >>> was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the state >>> and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and safely, >>> since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot test and >>> won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages. >>> >>> Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of >>> macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which is >>> what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter critical >>> errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). >>> I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't >>> and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about >>> this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work >>> (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have a >>> package without the feature than none obviously. :-) >>> >>> In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at >>> the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access >>> is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs and >>> whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, >>> we'll try to figure this out. >>> >>> Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on >>> irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Jehan >>> >>> Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271 >>>> >>>> >>>> -Tres >>>> >>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < >>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list < >>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? [I >>>>> mean >>>>> > official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's]. >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The >>>>> answer is >>>>> still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) >>>>> macOS >>>>> contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And to >>>>> be >>>>> fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am >>>>> worried >>>>> about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine as >>>>> we >>>>> get no news. >>>>> >>>>> Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion would >>>>> not >>>>> be a bad thing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems? >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is >>>>> that >>>>> nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough to >>>>> **ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many >>>>> times >>>>> over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a >>>>> French >>>>> specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!). >>>>> This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! >>>>> The current version of scripts are there: >>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>> >>>>> There are only 3 possible outcomes: >>>>> 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* 😢 to >>>>> do >>>>> all the mac packaging. >>>>> 2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. >>>>> 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome! >>>>> >>>>> In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in >>>>> any >>>>> way. >>>>> Thanks for either helping or understanding. 🙂 >>>>> >>>>> Jehan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Maurizio Loreti -- maurizio.lor...@gmail.com >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>> > List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>> > List membership: >>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>> > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>> List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>> List membership: >>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>> >> > > -- > ZeMarmot open animation film > http://film.zemarmot.net > Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ > Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot > Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot > _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
