> > If you come on the IRC channel (#gimp on irc.gimp.org), you can also > discuss with this new contributor (nickname "Benitoite", and "Jehan" for > me).
My workflow doesn't jive well with IRC, but I'll hop on for a bit to say hello. :) - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:37 PM Tres Finocchiaro < > tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I see some new patches arriving which suggests there's some new activity >> on the Mac port (SDK 10.9 -> 10.10), etc. I'll jump on the developer list >> as suggested although from what I'm seeing there's -- what appears to be -- >> progress so it'll be more for the purposes of familiarizing with the >> build system in the event my assistance is needed. >> > > The patches you see are only in a single test branch which I created for > someone who also wants to get familiarized with the build system, just like > you. This being in a branch of the official repo (not master yet though) > allows to get real builds on the CI service (which is otherwise a paid > service). > > You are still very welcome to help, and I can even make you a test branch > if you want as well (or you can work on the same test branch with this > other contributor). If you come on the IRC channel (#gimp on irc.gimp.org), > you can also discuss with this new contributor (nickname "Benitoite", and > "Jehan" for me). The more people the better. This brings redundancy if ever > any of us needs to get a bit off-record for a bit (which is perfectly ok, > people have lives) so that we don't end up again in the same situation with > no package maintainer for months. > > Jehan > > >> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the >>>> download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to >>>> re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself. >>>> >>>> Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on >>>> connection or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump >>>> on. >>>> >>>> Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for >>>> raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on >>>> their BS, getting this junkware removed: >>>> https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any >>>> high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) >>>> but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D >>>> >>> >>> Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the >>> discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: >>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC >>> of course. >>> >>> Jehan >>> >>> >>>> -Tres >>>> >>>> >>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>>>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> > he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling >>>>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/a/53528020/3196753>, the hardened >>>>>> runtimes require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would >>>>>> likely be futile. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I >>>>> understand there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple >>>>> ID of GNOME (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put >>>>> you in contact. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of >>>>>> 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a >>>>>> nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a >>>>>> bunch of custom steps >>>>>> <https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki/Dependencies-MacOS#108-custom-steps> >>>>>> although >>>>>> I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears >>>>>> (perhaps) >>>>>> the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, >>>>>> that >>>>>> must be doing a lot of the work. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx >>>>> Alex had a GIMP-specific fork: >>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp >>>>> But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already. >>>>> >>>>> As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try >>>>> to not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. >>>>> And actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to >>>>> Wikipedia). Cf. >>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt >>>>> But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much >>>>> more difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible >>>>> (in which case we'd bump up the requirement). >>>>> >>>>> There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older >>>>> Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't >>>>> stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support >>>>> (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? 🙂 >>>>> This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to >>>>> drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, >>>>> we'll >>>>> just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. 😉 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools >>>>>> <https://github.com/jralls/gtk-mac-bundler/pull/10>, leveraging a 3rd >>>>>> party dmg creator <https://github.com/andreyvit/create-dmg> (I've >>>>>> used app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be >>>>>> completely automated including signing and notarizing. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", >>>>> "Creating DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can >>>>>> offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be >>>>> downloaded in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account >>>>> to >>>>> see this, no idea. Do you see the DMG link? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a >>>>>> build as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it >>>>>> more of a best-effort basis? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it >>>>> means that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his >>>>> head. He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last >>>>> 2 >>>>> years (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for >>>>> many years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a >>>>> time! 😕). >>>>> >>>>> I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to >>>>> the repo once you are done. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know >>>>> nothing macOS-related. >>>>> >>>>> Alex's notes are stellar btw. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are >>>>> extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!). >>>>> >>>>> Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right >>>>>> away if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to >>>>>> have stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cool. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Jehan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -Tres >>>>>> >>>>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès < >>>>>> jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Tres, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>>>>>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jehan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in >>>>>>>> his absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much >>>>>>>> different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build >>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>> via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's >>>>>>> written on our website. So these can be good references indeed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself >>>>>>> to also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious >>>>>>> reasons). >>>>>>> This is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the >>>>>>> build repository: >>>>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>>>> It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same >>>>>>> repository. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called >>>>>>> CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME >>>>>>> Gitlab >>>>>>> CI machines). Builds are there: >>>>>>> https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, >>>>>>> which was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> state and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and >>>>>>> safely, since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we >>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> test and won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" >>>>>>> rules of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger >>>>>>> (lldb), >>>>>>> which is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or >>>>>>> encounter >>>>>>> critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). >>>>>>> I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he >>>>>>> didn't and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care >>>>>>> about this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't >>>>>>> work (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> have a package without the feature than none obviously. :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look >>>>>>> at the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an >>>>>>> access is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details >>>>>>> (artifacts, >>>>>>> logs and whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is >>>>>>> enough. >>>>>>> If not, we'll try to figure this out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on >>>>>>> irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jehan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Tres >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < >>>>>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? >>>>>>>>> [I mean >>>>>>>>> > official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's]. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The >>>>>>>>> answer is >>>>>>>>> still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) >>>>>>>>> macOS >>>>>>>>> contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And >>>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>>> fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am >>>>>>>>> worried >>>>>>>>> about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still >>>>>>>>> fine as we >>>>>>>>> get no news. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion >>>>>>>>> would not >>>>>>>>> be a bad thing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem >>>>>>>>> is that >>>>>>>>> nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only >>>>>>>>> enough to >>>>>>>>> **ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so >>>>>>>>> many times >>>>>>>>> over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a >>>>>>>>> French >>>>>>>>> specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks >>>>>>>>> ago!). >>>>>>>>> This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! >>>>>>>>> The current version of scripts are there: >>>>>>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are only 3 possible outcomes: >>>>>>>>> 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* 😢 >>>>>>>>> to do >>>>>>>>> all the mac packaging. >>>>>>>>> 2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. >>>>>>>>> 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps >>>>>>>>> in any >>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>> Thanks for either helping or understanding. 🙂 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jehan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > Maurizio Loreti -- maurizio.lor...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> > List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>>>>> > List membership: >>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>>>>> > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>>>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>>>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>>>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>>>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>>>>> List membership: >>>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>>>>> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>> >> > > -- > ZeMarmot open animation film > http://film.zemarmot.net > Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ > Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot > Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot > _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
