Conversely conversely, I never learned to use a ten speed bike because I never had one.
|Things like proper syntax, rules of scoping, function definitions, and so on can be weeds for some. Completely agree with that, because I felt as though all of the aforementioned things were in the weeds. When starting I got super hung up on them particularly syntax. However, for someone who is driven to accomplish a goal, the cost of hardship or failure is learning. Does it scare most people away? Yes it does, no argument there. That was my point of highlighting the need for a goal. Rarely do kids want to learn something just because someone told them it was interesting, more interesting to play video games or something. When I said khan and the like was too in the weeds what I meant is the following. Say your goal is to get into calculus even though you have only got to geometry in formal education. You are going to have to go through 30-80 hours of basic math before it stops complaining that you want to take what you know and just jump into calc. (if it ever figures it out what's going on at all) It's yet another sore area in terms of a spot to lose interest. Same thing occurs on codecademy, this is just the inherent flaw of that type of system. How could the server know where you are at in your learning journey? It can't, unless it has been there the whole way. Even if it could, the server would have to take the time to figure it out regardless. Maybe stated in a more profound way, "how can something know what you don't know you don't know". If you have a kid or someone you are mentoring, it's likely you know where they are at. Even better, given you are the one with the knowledge than it is you that is the better resource than codecademy or khan. No curriculum necessary just a worthwhile project and the interest to pursue it. It took me way less than 30 hours to figure out what a semicolon was for... Now, maybe it took me a lot longer to stop forgetting them (or putting them in the wrong places...), but before that time I was already hooked and it was just another part of solving the problem :) Gee wiz, with python you just have to figure out how 4 spaces are superior to tabs and you're all set, no semicolons needed. On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Bill Freeman <ke1g...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think that you should consult the child as to whether she: > 1. Wants to make the computer do stuff beyond playing games and typing > term papers; > 2. Is thinking along the lines of joining a FIRST team and contributing > to the software; > 3. Wants to build her own robot or similar; > 4. Wants to better understand what Dad does; > 5. Wants a leg up for school, eventually college, computer courses/labs, > ability to write tools to do calculations on data from a schools assigned > experiment; > 6. Some combination. > You don't have to get very far down that list before a graphical drag and > drop environment is going to start to feel confining. > Not that you can't start there. I only have graphical programming with > LavView, but I suspect that the skills don't translate as easily as you > hope. > [If you're a EE or maybe chemist or physicist with no programming skills - > if you can find such anymore - LabView can be a good alternative.] > > There is no reason, however, not to do both a graphical language and a > more traditional text based language, choosing, at the moment, whichever is > appropriate for her current pet project. > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Ben Scott <dragonh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Dec 24, 2015 12:47, "Paul Beaudet" <inof...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Pointing to the training wheel equivalent here alarms me we may be >> overlooking the key objective, which is inspiration for a young person. >> >> Conversely, if you give a ten-speed racing bike to someone who has not >> yet learned to crawl, that will be pretty discouraging. I remember seeing >> such a bike as a very young kid, and not having a clue what all those >> levers did. Having to learn all that while also learning to get my legs to >> drive the pedals while also learning how to balance would have been much >> more difficult for me. I'm glad I started with my single-speed >> coaster-braked bike. >> >> > Codeacademy and Khan start and such a basic level it's hard to see the >> forest through the trees. Here me right, I think they are great tools, I >> just personally found them frustrating because of the great amount of time >> taken mucking through the weeds or things that were already understood. >> >> Things like proper syntax, rules of scoping, function definitions, and so >> on can be weeds for some. >> >> The advantage of things like LOGO, Scratch, and the like, is they get >> people thinking about decomposing a problem into algorithms, variables, >> debugging, and so on, without having to know what any of those things are. >> The visual metaphors tap into basic skills we learn playing with blocks as >> toddlers. For some people, that can be a huge enabler. >> >> There's no one solution that's right for everyone. >> >> -- Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnhlug-discuss mailing list >> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org >> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ > >
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