Hi Dora, On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:32:20PM -0400, Dora Scilipoti wrote: > On 10/31/2019 09:01 AM, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > > Please follow the rules of this list. Repetition should not happen. > > You have made your case. > > It's no repetition. Ruben is responding specifically to a statement.
Ruben is a prolific poster who has already made his case that all this is just falsehoods and defamation. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on that. Simply repeating your opinion over and over again, while personally attacking the people you don't agree with, does not make for a very pleasant discussion. This list has slightly different posting rules than most other GNU lists. Which are often completely open to anyone, or private with restricted membership. We believed neither is ideal for a discussion on GNU governance issues. So we are experimenting with a lightly moderated list to have that discussion. After various GNU maintainers and developers expressed a desire to discuss GNU governance issues: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ We discussed with various people and the FSF what a good space would be for that. Since this mailinglist already is about "serious discussion of freed software, the GNU Project, the GNU Manifesto, and their implications" it seemed a good place to do that, especially since it already had posting rules that seemed compatible "Flaming is out of place. Tit-for-tat is not welcome. Repetition should not occur. Good READING and writing are expected. Before posting, wait a while, cool off, and think.". Carlos and I discussed with the FSF and Karl, who normally moderates this mailinglist, whether we could use the list for this discussion and moderate it. I see we somehow failed to post the announcement about that to this list itself, it somehow only got out to various other lists where people had expressed an interest in an open GNU governance. That was obviously a mistake, apologies. https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2019-10/msg00147.html That message also explains the rules for GNU governance related theads that you had a question about better than how I summarized it earlies. These are the current posting guidelines, now also on the gnu-misc-discuss info page: Flaming is out of place. Tit-for-tat is not welcome. Repetition should not occur. Good READING and writing are expected. Before posting, wait a while, cool off, and think. So take your time to reply and think whether you actually have a new point to make, or if you are just restating your opinion again. If possible bundle your replies to several messages. Restricting yourself to just one message a day to the list is not a bad thing. Don't just reply to every message repeating your opinion or have a tit- for-tat discussion with just one member of the list. Also consider addressing the list directly and remove individuals from the CC to prevent a rapid fire back-and-forth between two people simply disagreeing without the messages even having made it to the list yet. Make sure you have read the kind communication guide: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html Some important points from that: Assume other participants are posting in good faith, even if you disagree with what they say. Please do not criticize people for wrongs that you only speculate they may have done; stick to what they actually say and actually do. Please respond to what people actually said, not to exaggerations of their views. Your criticism will not be constructive if it is aimed at a target other than their real views. If in a discussion someone brings up a tangent to the topic at hand, please keep the discussion on track by focusing on the current topic rather than the tangent. If you think the tangent is an important and pertinent issue, please bring it up as a separate discussion, with a Subject field to fit, and consider waiting for the end of the current discussion. And for GNU Project governance discussion threads, they should stay on topic and be strictly about governance and not about specific people and their respective abilities. In general we don't have to enforce this very strictly. There have only been a few people who posted similar messages multiple times a day that we have rejected and asked to tone it down. There has been one thread which we believed spiraled out of control pretty quickly and that we have killed. In that case I posted a message to the list explaining why (and Carlos then repeated that in the message you replied to). In general anybody who just sents one or two messages a day gets their mails approved pretty quickly. The moderation is mainly to make sure that the discussion doesn't become heated by people excessively posting and drowning out all other participants. If you feel the need to post to this list multiple times a day, or to a thread that already seen multiple replies, then simply think if you (or someone else) already made your point and if it can wait till tomorrow. All posts to this list are seen by all moderators and when we do reject posts from a specific individual or on a specific thread, then we do sent that to the other moderators. So we can correct each other if we happen to make a mistake. We have now also asked Brandon and Mike to help us with that, because we know they have different opinions on how GNU governance works. And it would keep us all honest. I hope these rules will help keep the discussion pleasant and on-topic without flames, tit-for-tats and excessive repeats of points already made. And I hope you trust us enough to participate. Cheers, Mark