(and the attachemnt) On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 04:53:57PM +0100, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > Here we don't do LT/ST, but it's only possible to offset losses up to > the end of the 4th year after the loss was realized. Meaning that 2019 > losses are now in stone. Besides, one offests losses by fist pickin the > furtherst year first, so it's good to know how much is left to offset > from each given year for each broker (it's common practice in Q4 to look > at what's left over from 3-4 years before and evaluate what to do to not > lose the credit). > > See the screenshot of what I got right now, for example. > Wouldn't obtaining these numbers, by putting both losses and gains in > the same bucket and then using the standard-provided reports, be > unnecessarily hard? > > > Again, note that I'm not using this to compute my own taxes, that's done > by the brokers already (I'm nowhere near the volume where it would make > sense for me to take over that "job" - which I could fwiw), but I do > want my data to match theirs. > > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 06:32:08PM +0300, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: > > Likewise not an accountant. > > > > In the US (my tax authority), gains are taxed at two rates (long term and > > short term), and gains and losses offset each other. I maintain separate > > income accounts for short term and long term gains/losses (income accounts > > because I'm an optimist!). These are placed in parent accounts for the > > brokerage (since each broker sends its own tax reports). There's no need to > > separate by year, since a saved report gives me last year's data instantly. > > > > To summarize: > > > > Income > > - Realized gains > > - - Broker 1 > > - - - LT gains > > - - - ST gains > > - - Broker 2 > > - - - LT gains > > - - - ST gains > > > > David T. > > > > On Jan 24, 2024, 5:22 PM, at 5:22 PM, Patrick James > > <patrickjame...@comcast.net> wrote: > > >Again keeping in mind that I am NOT a tax authority. > > > > > >Now that we're on the equity side, let's move forward with your > > >tracking. > > > > > >I very much doubt that you need two separate accounts for the losses > > >and gains; from what you're suggesting, you need to match some gains > > >with some losses. I would match these in a single account "XXXX Capital > > >Gains" where it is known that CR is "gain" (the expected/desired > > >'normal' balance) and DR is "loss." Just labeling an account "Capital" > > >is difficult when looking back/keeping track of what is what. And one > > >need not label it "Capital Gain or Loss," as the "or loss" part is > > >understood based on the balance in the account. > > > > > >Given what you are requesting, I'd have something like this: > > > > > >Capital Gain > > >----2017 Broker 1 > > >----2017 Broker 2 > > >----2018 Broker 1 > > >----2018 Broker 2 > > > > > >You would know what is best in terms of subaccounts. > > > > > >Then run reports if you need some specific information, which could > > >include separating the losses from the gains based on the debits and > > >credits. > > > > > >Keep in mind that I'm providing some ideas about how to use GNUCash as > > >a tool, and I have no idea about your tax requirements. > > > > > > > > >> On 01/24/2024 3:11 AM PST Mattia Rizzolo <mat...@mapreri.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Thank you Patrick for your suggestion! > > >> > > >> I see what you are suggesting here… Mh. > > >> > > >> It could easily become very messy as the rules for offsetting gains > > >is > > >> fairly annoying here: gains some financial instruments can offset > > >losses > > >> only from some other particular financial instruments (i.e., "gains" > > >> from the dividends can *never* be offeset, or losses from stocks > > >can't > > >> be offset by gain on ETFs, etc)… Plus the fact that I'd need to > > >split > > >> losses by years and brokers… it's going to be annoying to have an > > >> account clearly state the "correct" credit I'm due this way. > > >> > > >> > > >> But I think you may have pointed me to the right direction, of > > >keeping > > >> everything within the equities, here is what I've done: > > >> (yes, I realize that income/expenses are "the same thing") > > >> > > >> Expenses > > >> |- Capital Loss > > >> |- Broker 1 > > >> |- 2017 > > >> |- 2020 > > >> |- 2021 > > >> |- 2023 > > >> Income > > >> |- Capital Gain > > >> > > >> So, I changed my losses to be posted against the proper "capital > > >loss" > > >> account instead of being a negative gain, and then I'm posting the > > >> future gains as compensation of that loss (and only for the part that > > >> can be compensated). > > >> This way indeed the balance of the Broker1 account does match with > > >what > > >> the broker is showing me. > > >> > > >> > > >> Do anybody believe I may be missing something out when recording > > >capital > > >> gains/losses this way? > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 03:43:03PM -0800, Patrick James wrote: > > >> > Let's start with your best bet is to work with your tax > > >professional as to how best to keep track of what's needed for taxes. > > >> > > > >> > In the US, what you call a "credit" generally would not be an asset > > >account. The "credit" would be a potential offset to some future gain, > > >if there is any future gain, so I would leave all this over on the > > >equity side. > > >> > > > >> > Day 0 Purchase: > > >> > > > >> > Stock (asset) $100DR > > >> > Cash $100CR > > >> > Purchase of 100 shares of Stock Y for $1 per share > > >> > > > >> > Day 365 Sale: > > >> > > > >> > Cash $90DR > > >> > Capital Gain $10DR > > >> > Stock (asset) $100CR > > >> > Sale of 100 shares of Day 0 Stock Y for $0.90 per share. > > >> > > > >> > NOTE: One hopes that capital gains has a CR (gain) balance, rather > > >than the DR balance above (loss). > > >> > > > >> > Later, if there was some sale for a gain, then the CR recorded to > > >Capital Gain would offset some or all of the DR. > > >> > > > >> > Also note that matching the shares as I have done above is not > > >always as simple as this single stock sale where all shares are > > >purchased on a single day and the entire holding is sold a year later. > > >> > > > >> > Again, talk to your tax professional about how to best keep the > > >records necessary for tax compliance. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 01/23/2024 1:43 PM PST Mattia Rizzolo <mat...@mapreri.org> > > >wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hello, > > >> > > > > >> > > I'd like some input on how to best record a tax credit due to > > >capital > > >> > > loss, and possibly the following usage of such credit. > > >> > > Disclaimer: I'm not doing this for anything worth, it's a > > >personal book > > >> > > that nobody but me sees, so I can take a few liberties and not > > >follow > > >> > > whatever regulation to the letter. Besides, I have no formal > > >education > > >> > > on accounting. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > The case is the following: > > >> > > > > >> > > 1 buy security A, cost $100 > > >> > > 2 buy security B, cost $100 > > >> > > 3 sell security A, get $90 > > >> > > 3a → record $10 loss > > >> > > 3b → get a $10 tax credit on following capital gains > > >> > > 4 sell security B, get $120 > > >> > > 4a → record $20 gain > > >> > > 4b → offset $10 from 3b > > >> > > 4c → pay tax on the remaining $10 (26%, $2.6 over here) > > >> > > > > >> > > I reckon all jurisdictions have something similar in concept, all > > >with > > >> > > their differences in details. > > >> > > > > >> > > This is a tad further complicated by the fact that each broker > > >has its > > >> > > own "bucket" of credits (can't comingle losses and gains across > > >> > > different brokers). Also the credits expire after 4 years, so I > > >should > > >> > > record under which year they matured. As such, I expect an > > >addition to > > >> > > my CoA, such as: > > >> > > Assets > > >> > > |- Credits > > >> > > |- Capital Loss credits > > >> > > |- broker 1 > > >> > > |- 2020 > > >> > > |- 2021 > > >> > > |- 2022 > > >> > > |- 2023 > > >> > > |- 2024 > > >> > > |- broker 2 > > >> > > |- 2022 > > >> > > ..... > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > I've been using gnucash for ~3 years now, but I always > > >procrastinated on > > >> > > figuring out the 3b/4b steps, just posting the resulting net tax > > >> > > transaction as computed by the broker. > > >> > > For me it's really not obvious what's the opposing account from > > >where > > >> > > the money should come/go... > > >> > > How do people do it here? :) > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thank you for all the hints! > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > regards, > > >> > > Mattia Rizzolo > > >> > > > > >> > > GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 > > >.''`. > > >> > > More about me: https://mapreri.org : > > >:' : > > >> > > Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri > > >`. `'` > > >> > > Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia > > >`- > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > gnucash-user mailing list > > >> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > >> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > >> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > >> > > ----- > > >> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > >> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > gnucash-user mailing list > > >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > >> > ----- > > >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> regards, > > >> Mattia Rizzolo > > >> > > >> GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 > > >.''`. > > >> More about me: https://mapreri.org : :' > > >: > > >> Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. > > >`'` > > >> Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> gnucash-user mailing list > > >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > >> ----- > > >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >gnucash-user mailing list > > >gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > >----- > > >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > _______________________________________________ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > ----- > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > -- > regards, > Mattia Rizzolo > > GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. > More about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : > Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` > Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `-
--
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo
GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`.
More about me: https://mapreri.org : :' :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `-
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