Dear Edgar Valles, You are thoroughly correct concerning the way this debate should be run. António Bernardo Colaço
Edgar Valles <[email protected]> escreveu (quarta, 14/01/2026 à(s) 11:43): > The most important thing in an interesting debate like this is not to > antagonize each other. We are intellectuals, not box fighters. > We must also avoid hurting the sensibility or the feelings of people of > the group. > > > > V M <[email protected]> escreveu (quarta, 14/01/2026 à(s) 11:00): > >> Very well said, Cliff. This is an essential framing... >> >> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2026, 16:13 Cliff Pereira, <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Nuno, your perspective is one of many, there are perspectives of >>> those colonised, those colonising and those who were dragged into the >>> colonising process. None of these perspectives is entirely valid and none >>> are entirely invalid. >>> Alberto mentions that Angola and Mozambique’s borders were not drawn up >>> by Africans, they were drawn up in Berlin and divided African peoples. The >>> Bakongo, Batshokwe, Ovambo, Makua and others were split - hardly a process >>> of unification. This is more a process of divide and (separate) rule. >>> >>> I have listened to the perspectives of Portuguese ex-military and the >>> colonised in Angola, Guinea-Bissau, and Cape Verde and São Tomé (as well as >>> Timor-Leste, Goa and Macau). What strikes me is that many of the military >>> people who were often at the front-line portray empathy with the people >>> they were sent to fight and the thousands of non-partisan people who were >>> caught up in the wars. But the wives of the military who lived in compounds >>> and nice suburbs with their "small army” of servants have nothing but hate >>> for the colonised. Even today one ex-military wife mentioned “we had such >>> lovely swimming pools, now look at Bissau?”. The fact that she had a pool >>> while most of the country had no safe running water reflects the inequality >>> that all European colonialism produced. Clearly colonialism was about >>> maintaining a certain status, or hierarchy of dominance. >>> >>> Our (includes Goans) passports divided us into “assimildo” or >>> “não-assimilado”. One offered benefits to employment and housing, etc. the >>> other did not. Social mobility was strictly controlled. But that >>> ex-military wife would have had little or no idea of this mechanism and >>> probably cared little. >>> >>> Meanwhile the cotton from the colonies supported the textile industry of >>> Portugal - not the cotton producers. >>> >>> You are right, that we should look forward, but we are not on the same >>> page when looking back and that is the stumbling block. >>> Clifford Pereira. >>> >>> Get Outlook for Mac <https://aka.ms/GetOutlookForMac> >>> *From: *'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Date: *Tuesday, 13 January 2026 at 1:09 AM >>> *To: *[email protected] < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject: *Re: [GRN] Vasco da Gama >>> >>> Having served in the Portuguese army in Angola from 1966 to 1968 I might >>> be suspect of sympathizing with Portuguese colonialism, particularly as I >>> never witnessed Angolan people being abused or mistreated by either the >>> Portuguese administration or by any Portuguese settlers in Angola. But in >>> fact I - and most Portuguese people - consider that colonialism is on >>> principle a bad thing, and we should have never tried to occupy those >>> countries and try to impose our way of life on them. But having said that I >>> believe that most peoples colonized by us, in the end benefitted more from >>> our presence than were harmed by it. For instance, if we take Angola, what >>> we see there is a strong feeling of national identity, a lack of tribalism >>> or religious conflict, which is mostly due to their now having a common >>> language which unites them, and a common cultural matrix which has helped >>> them overcome any original differences among tribes, which would have >>> prevented them being a coese people. Without us there would now be at least >>> some four or five different countries on what is Angola, or some of the >>> local tribes would have been exploited and dominated by stronger tribes. >>> Yes, historically we have comitted some crimes, but which country - no >>> matter how sovereign - has not often comitted crimes against their own >>> people? Can we forget that most African slaves were delivered to slavers by >>> their own people? For money. And historically, weren't we all colonized? >>> The Celts and Iberian natives in Iberia were colonized by Fenicians and by >>> Romans, as well as by Muslim Berber tribes from North Africa. Without them >>> we woukldn't speak the languages we speak, and our values and judicial >>> system might have been very different. Did we lose anything with it? >>> Nothing essential, I'm sure, and we gained a lot from those dominant >>> powers. Time to look to the future, and not to the past. >>> >>> Cumprimentos >>> >>> Nuno Cardoso da Silva >>> >>> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 11, 2026 at 7:24 PM >>> *From:* [email protected] >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [GRN] Vasco da Gama >>> To conclude this debate about foreign invasions from distant lands, >>> whether by capitalists or communists, just a few lines: >>> The partition of Africa in Berlin, formalized at the Berlin Conference >>> (1884-1885), was the process by which European powers, without African >>> presence, drew arbitrary borders to colonize the continent, regulating the >>> division and territorial occupation, establishing principles such as >>> "effective occupation," and consolidating colonial exploitation with >>> lasting consequences for African nations. >>> >>> The communist Stalin colonized parts of Eastern Europe. Portuguese >>> communists never contested this. >>> >>> Those defeated and expelled from the colonies will always defend the >>> theses advocated by the dictator Salazar or Stalin. >>> >>> To understand better, it is good to read the book by the Angolan writer >>> Nito Alves Vandunas, *"The Prominence of Mercenaries in Mass Graves, ( >>> Proeminência dos mercenários nas valas comuns"* published in Luanda by >>> Elivulu house (1977) . It tells the story of foreign assassins who came >>> from Lisbon to kill Angolan leaders. >>> Alberto >>> Cumprimentos >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20260111192450.Horde.8FXE8GJ5xYyVdokuXHHll_a%40mail.sapo.pt >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20260111192450.Horde.8FXE8GJ5xYyVdokuXHHll_a%40mail.sapo.pt?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-79df5166-bc35-4c55-8860-00199780d903-1768223867771%403c-app-mailcom-bs01 >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-79df5166-bc35-4c55-8860-00199780d903-1768223867771%403c-app-mailcom-bs01?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/OS9PR01MB14141A7BB8C0AEC0C186E3BF1BB8FA%40OS9PR01MB14141.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/OS9PR01MB14141A7BB8C0AEC0C186E3BF1BB8FA%40OS9PR01MB14141.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW451-5N7MckMpx3EqkAoNfo%2BQJRFphM4pTe8enjwgr%3DCg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW451-5N7MckMpx3EqkAoNfo%2BQJRFphM4pTe8enjwgr%3DCg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAEXcPuov2VHhFhA30GR%2B1y6yPHjVHTga7fnQMmRYrn%2BaeiqgMw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAEXcPuov2VHhFhA30GR%2B1y6yPHjVHTga7fnQMmRYrn%2BaeiqgMw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- normetica.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. 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