OK. Stevan has my vote. Jean-Max Noyer Université de Paris7
Le 9 oct. 08 à 14:09, Ingegerd Rabow a écrit : My confidence vote for Stevan Ingegerd Rabow Lund, Sweden -----Original Message----- From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Jeffery, KG (Keith) Sent: den 9 oktober 2008 06:20 To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the AmSci Forum And me (on pda travelling) Prof Keith G Jeffery -----Original Message----- From: "Alma Swan" <a.s...@talk21.com> To: "american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org" <american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org> Sent: 07/10/08 20:00 Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the              AmSci Forum I agree. Stevan should remain, doing his own inimitable thing, which has been invaluable for OA. He keeps things focused and provides an input that is uniquely useful. Count me in on the 'aye' side, please. Alma Swan Key Perspectives Ltd Truro, UK --- On Tue, 7/10/08, Tony Hey <tony....@microsoft.com> wrote: From: Tony Hey <tony....@microsoft.com> Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the              AmSci Forum To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Date: Tuesday, 7 October, 2008, 3:40 PM I absolutely agree with Michael - the list would die without Stevan Tony -----Original Message----- From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Michael Eisen Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:26 AM To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the AmSci Forum I disagree with Stevan often. He can be infuriating. He has a tendency to bloviate. Nonetheless - he has been a FANTASTIC moderator of this list. I have sent off many posts that have criticized Stevan directly, and he has never failed to send them to the group. I can think of no other list that has not just lasted for 10 years, but kept up a high level of discourse and relevance. Stevan has my complete confidence. The list would die without him. On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:37 AM, Stevan Harnad wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:37 AM, c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk <c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk> wrote: I totally support Jean-Claude's view. I can only repeat what I said before: (1) I am happy to put an end to my 10-year moderatorship of the American Scientist Open Access Forum and hand it over to someone else who is willing to do it, but only if it is requested by a plurality of the membership, not if it is merely requested by a few dissatisfied members. (2) The moderator's role is to filter postings, approving the relevant ones, and rejecting the off-topic or ad-hominem ones. (3) Apart from that, the moderator has no special status or authority (other than what may accrue from the substance of his postings), and may post *exactly* as any other poster may post, including the posting of quotes, comments, critiques, elaborations, rebuttals *and summaries*. By my count, there have not been many votes one way or the other, but of the few votes there have been, more seem to be expressing confidence in my moderatorship than those that are calling for me to be replaced. I have also been accused of of censorship, by both Jean-Claude and Sally, the charge being subsequently rescinded. If there are doubts about whether I can be trusted to post or tally the votes -- or, more important, if we are to spare the Forum the bandwidth of votes appearing instead of OA substance -- I am also quite happy to direct the votes to be sent to a trusted 3rd party for tallying, if that is the wish of the Forum. Stevan Harnad Charles Professor Charles Oppenheim Head Department of Information Science Loughborough University Loughborough Leics LE11 3TU Tel 01509-223065 Fax 01509 223053 e mail c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk ________________________________ From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Jean-Claude Guédon Sent: 06 October 2008 19:00 To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: American Scientist Open Access Forum settings What I note is that my messages sometimes appear back very late and I wonder why. It is this detail which caused my recent angry  reaction. While we are on technical matters, I would appreciate two things from this moderator/actor: 1. That he should refrain from ever summarizing somebody's words. We are all versed enough in the art of reading to be able to survive without this doubtful form of help. Besides, list moderators are not mentors or paternal figures. When the summary ends up distorting the original message, it becomes reprehensible; 2. Since the moderator also intervenes as member in this list, he should make clear which of his interventions are moderating interventions and which ones are participations in discussions. In the latter case, summaries should be avoided. I realize that Peter Suber manages a blog and not a list, but I really like the way in which he carefully delineates the pieces of news he wants to convey, and how he announces his own comments. This is a very good model to follow. I would also add that Peter Suber refrains from using judgements and terms that occasionally raise the ire of readers such as me. When I read a sentence such as "Many silly, mindless things have been standing in the way of the optimal and inevitable" (Sept 28), I ask myself if the silly, and mindless  characterizations belong to this context. I also wonder whether the "optimal and inevitable" are objective, neutral terms. On Sept. 30th, in answering to me, Stevan made free to add: "What on earth does this mean?". Was that useful? In short, Stevan acts as if there was one truth, one defender of this truth (himself). The list is "his" list and, on it, he can berate people at will (What on earth does this mean?). And then if you resist and respond with a few equivalents to "What on earth... etc.", then you are accused of flaming, being vituperative, or whatever. I wonder how the same individual, at will and arbitrarily, can assume the trappings of a moderator or a debate without even making sure that people know which role is at work. It troubles me and, I assume, it should trouble many people. This said, Stevan has also done excellent work in setting up this list and maintaining it. This too should be recognized openly and loudly. But there is room for improvement. Jean-Claude Guédon PS I will not come back on this point. I leave the floor to Stevan or any other person willing to defend his present position as both actor and moderator. Le lundi 06 octobre 2008 à 13:23 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit : Whether you do or do not receive copies of your own postings depends on the setting you chose when you signed onto the American Scientist Open Access Forum. I have checked Leslie's, Sally's and Jean-Claude's settings. I note that both Leslie's and Sally's were set to "No acknowledgements [NOACK NOREPRO]" -- the listserv's default option. I have now changed them both to "Receive copy of own postings [NOACK REPRO]". Jean-Claude's setting was already  "Receive copy of own postings [NOACK REPRO]". If you are not receiving copies of your own postings, you can modify your settings at http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?SUBED1=american-scientist-open-acces s-forum&A=1 Stevan Harnad Moderator ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: Jean-Claude =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gu=E9don_is_wrong=2C_and_so_is_Zinath_Rehana?= From: "Leslie Chan" <c...@utsc.utoronto.ca> To: "American Scientist Open Access Forum" <american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org> This has been a source of confusion for me in the past. It appears that the listserv software is setup in such a way that the senders do not receive a copy of his or her own postings. Is this the case, Stevan, and can this be changed to avoid future confusion? Leslie Apologies - I have no idea why my own original posting on the matter di= d not appear on my own computer Sally Sally Morris Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy) South House, The Street Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK Tel:  +44(0)1903 871286 Fax:  +44(0)8701 202806 Email:  sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Stevan Harnad Sent: 06 October 2008 15:08 To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana On 10/6/08, Sally Morris (Morris Associates) <sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk> wrote: List readers will have seen the positive comments on Stevan's moderati= on of the list I am worried, however, about whether negative comments are being censored. Mine was May I suggest that before resorting to accusations of censorship, as Jean-Claude Guedon did, you consult the American Scientist Open Access Forum's archive http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/American-Scientist-Open-Access-Fo= rum.h tml where you will see, as Jean-Claude did, that all your postings have appeared. Nothing has been rejected except another inappropriate posting by Zinath Rehana. Please distinguish the fact that I am often critical of your postings in my postings (as you often are of mine) from the question of whether or not they appear. They all appear, and when I do a critique, just as when you do a critique, I am merely a poster to the Forum, like anyone else. I will not, however, approve further postings accusing me of censorship from posters who have simply not bothered to check (or have not noticed) that their postings have appeared. This entire "censorship" thread has already cost the Forum a number of long-term members who have quit the list because they do not have the time for these off-topic exchanges. If you wish to inquire about a posting, send me an email. The Forum's bandwidth is not intended for this sort of thing. Stevan Harnad Sally Morris Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy) South House, The Street Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK Tel:  +44(0)1903 871286 Fax:  +44(0)8701 202806 Email:  sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk _____ From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] O= n Behalf Of Subbiah Arunachalam Sent: 06 October 2008 04:47 To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana I would say the same thing as Alma Swan and Barbara Kirsop, but being = a native speakers of English, they have said it far more effectively tha= n I could. Stevan, you are doing a great job. Do not get distracted from your pat= h because of a few detractors. Your postings are very educative and we i= n the developing world are greatly indebted to you for your tireless efforts to democratise knowledge and open up the flow of information. Arun [Subbiah Arunachalam] ----- Original Message ---- From: Ept <e...@biostrat.demon.co.uk> To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Sent: Friday, 3 October, 2008 18:17:30 Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana Surely all readers of this List will be grateful to the moderator for sparing us this objectionable posting and I subscribe absolutely to th= e sentiments so well expressed by Alma Swan. The role of a Moderator is = no easy path to follow and surely leads to turbulence within this highly vocal and dedicated community, each with their different backgrounds and own professional agendas. But as a person working in  'development', I for one am grateful to Stevan for his frequent reiteration of the basic points= , as I am sure are newcomers to the List. As a prime mover in the evolutionar= y process towards free access to essential research, his tireless effort= s are well appreciated by the information-starved world. Barbara Kirsop Electronic Publishing Trust for Development Jean-Claude Guédon Université de Montréal -- Scanned by iCritical for STFC. Jean-Max Noyer BIOGeoMedia Laboratoire CRICS/LCS CASE 70 98 Université Denis Diderot, Paris7 2, place Jussieu 75251, Paris, Cedex Mail: jean-max.no...@ext.jussieu.fr           jean-max.no...@paris7.jussieu.fr           onyx...@yahoo.fr 0157277942 0615047761 0494453784 http://www.uf-cci.univ-paris7.fr/crics/index.htm http://archivesic.ccsd.cnrs.fr http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/adest/ http://biblio-fr.info.unicaen.fr/bnum/jelec/Solaris/index.html MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.grico..fr" claiming to be http://www.grico.fr Professeur associé à l'École de Saint Cyr Coëtquidan OAI GRICO EDAF