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I support Michael's analysis. Commercial presses will do all they can to keep self-archiving at some artisanal, confusing level while lobbying like mad wherever they can (this means governmental agencies such as NIH and other similar agencies). The artisanal dimension I am talking about refers to constraints such as preventing the use of the publisher's pdf. Making it difficult for libraries to stock their own IR's with the articles of their faculty in some bulk fashion is another way to slow down archiving. When publishers impose their own particular constraints on self-archiving, they make things more confusing for the researchers, and this slows down progress. In short, they act in such a way that they cannot be directly and clearly faulted for opposing OA, but they make sure progress will be slow, difficult, reversible and temporary. While allowing self-archiving is indeed a step forward, it is accompanied by so many side issues that the step is small, hesitant, and not always pointed in the right direction. Of course, one can always invent some work around, add yet another button, or whatever, but this ends up making things only a little more complex and a little more confusing for the average researcher and it only reinforces the elements of confusion sought by at least some of the publishers. In short, it is a very clever strategy. To achieve OA, we do need self-archiving, all the difficulties thrown into its path by publishers notwithstanding, including the devious strategies I just referred to. But we also need OA publishing. Not to say that OA publishing should come before self-archiving, but to point out a very simple fact: a pincer strategy on the scientific communication system is better than a strategy based on a single method. OA needs self-archiving, but it also needs some reform in scientific publishing. Rather than opposing green and gold strategies, it is better to see how they can support each other. Jean-Claude Guédon Le mardi 02 décembre 2008 à 07:47 -0800, Michael Eisen a écrit : Les Carr wrote: > > HAVING SAID THAT, the library is in no way adverse to finding > mechanisms that assist individuals and ease their tasks, and I guess > that Elsevier can have no objections to that either! How about a > notification email to be sent to authors of "In Press" papers that > contains a "Deposit this paper" button that initiates the user's > deposit workflow on the ScienceDirect Submitted Manuscript PDF. > You guys are such suckers. OF COURSE Elsevier can have objections to libraries assisting individuals in self-archiving their work, because Elsevier does not want self archiving to succeed! What do they have to do to actually prove this to you? Stevan, Les and others seem to think that Karen Hunter's recent email was some kind of bureaucratic error, rather than realize it for what it clearly is - a direct statement from Elsevier that they do not want self-archiving to actually take off. It's a ploy (an apparently successful ploy) on their part to diffuse moves towards effective universal open access by a) making them seem like good guys and b) fostering the illusion that we can have universal green OA without altering the economics of publishing. And Stevan, rather than the typical retort about how green OA can be achieved now, with a few keystrokes, can you please instead explain how the policy statement from your friends at Elsevier does not indicate that they are really opposed to real OA. Jean-Claude Guédon Université de Montréal