I have no problem with this model, assuming that there is no compulsion from the RCs to move to the second stage of publishing in a journal. However, if there is a possibility that many articles will only go to stage 1 and are deposited in a repository without going on to be published in a journal, I fear that publishers and the UK Government would have serious objections to the proposal. Government policy is based upon the reverse of this proposal, i.e. publishing first in a journal to establish a “version of record” and then as a second stage (under the RCUK policy) depositing in a repository. I would like to see HM Government change their policy but what is there in this proposal to make them change their minds?
Also the fact that the proposal “de-conflates money and cost concerns from open access and re-use concerns” is exactly what publishers would not want to agree to. They are not worried about arXiv because – so far at least – they have been able to maintain their revenues in spite of the text of the arXiv version being identical to the text of the “version of record” in a journal. They would be worried if this model spread to other subject areas. However, it is good to see this proposal appear as a way of testing out how the decision-makers will react. Fred Friend http://www.friendofopenaccess.org.uk From: Jan Velterop Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:15 PM To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) Subject: [GOAL] Re: CC-BY in repositories Peter, It would simplify things a lot. So, the norm would be (mandated where needed) to deposit one's final manuscript, accepted for publication after peer-review, with a CC-BY licence, in a suitable repository, as soon as possible upon acceptance for publication. This has many similarities with deposit of preprints in arXiv. Publishers have not been concerned about arXiv. One reason is that versions of record are not deposited in arXiv. Subsequent publication of the 'version of record' takes place in a journal. In case that journal is a 'gold' journal with CC-BY licences, authors may replace the manuscript in the repository by the published version. Or not deposit a manuscript version at all but simply wait until the open, CC-BY version of record is published and deposit that. Some automated arrangement to do so may be available for some 'gold' journals and some repositories, as is already the case here and there (e.g for UKPMC). You may well be right that this very simple procedure would resolve most, perhaps all, problems of the Finch Report and RCUK policy plans. It also 'de-conflates' money and cost concerns from open access and reuse concerns. The only thing I'm not clear about is who the "we all" are who'd have to agree to launch this for Open Access week :-) Jan Velterop On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:28, Peter Murray-Rust wrote: On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Jan Velterop <velte...@gmail.com> wrote: There is an inconsistency here, either way. We've always heard, from Stevan Harnad, that the author was the one who intrinsically had copyright on the manuscript version, so could deposit it, as an open access article, in an open repository irrespective of the publisher's views. If that is correct, then the author could also attach a CC-BY licence to the manuscript version. If it is incorrect, the author can't deposit the manuscript with open access without the explicit permission of the publisher of his final, published version, and the argument advanced for more than a decade by Stevan Harnad is invalid. Which is it? I think Stevan was right, and a manuscript can be deposited with open access whether or not the publisher likes it. Whence his U-turn, I don't know. But if he was right at first, and I believe that's the case, that also means that it can be covered by a CC-BY licence. Repositories can't attach the licence, but 'gold' OA publishers can't either. It's always the author, as copyright holder by default. All repositories and OA publishers can do is require it as a condition of acceptance (to be included in the repository or to be published). What the publisher can do if he doesn't like the author making available the manuscript with open access, is apply the Ingelfinger rule or simply refuse to publish the article. Jan, I think this is very important. If we can establish the idea of Green-CC-BY as the norm for deposition in repositories then I would embrace it enthusiastically. I can see no downside other than that some publishers will fight it. But they fight anyway It also clairfies the difference between the final author ms and the publisher version of record. It would resolve all the apparent problems of the Finch reoprt etc. It is only because Green licences are undefined that we have this problem at all. And if we all agreed it could be launched for Open Access Week -- Peter Murray-Rust Reader in Molecular Informatics Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry University of Cambridge CB2 1EW, UK +44-1223-763069 _______________________________________________ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
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