Les: I thought the first paragraph made it very clear I was attacking not only Hitler arguments, but all of the "weaker versions" that portray one side as morally inferior to the other.
In my mind, the explicit and the non-explicit versions are all equivalent, and all equally irrelevant, as they are just different levels of name calling. I am not aware of anyone making the explicit Hitler argument when it comes to open access. In fact, even my shrill version of the argument was a non-explicit version. I thought I was clear about this in the post, but just restating it to be absolutely clear. --Eric. http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com Google Voice: (626) 898-5415 Telephone: (626) 376-5415 Skype: efvandevelde -- Twitter: @evdvelde E-mail: eric.f.vandeve...@gmail.com On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Leslie Carr <l...@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > Publishers are capitalists - I don't think they'd argue the point. > > The hostage metaphor really works for me and for many of my colleagues, as > it involves elements of ENFORCED TAKING and subsequent DEPRIVATION tied to > conditions of RANSOM. > > Eric's piece makes the really interesting and helpful point > There are no Hitlers. There are no Mothers Teresa. There are just > individuals and organizations looking out for their self-interest in a > market complicated by historical baggage > > He's certainly right about Hitler, but only he made the comparison in the > first place. (A search for Hitler and "open access" reveals a rather funny > Downfall video about Hitler's attitude to peer review, but it's not really > what Eric was concerned about.) > > He's absolutely on the nose about self-interested individuals and > organisations, and this is rather the point of open access! The research > publishing industry's self-interest need not be such an enormous problem to > the self-interest of the research industry. Thanks to the Web, the research > industry can regain a better balance in the scholarly ecosystem. > > Les Carr > > On 6 Nov 2012, at 04:32, "Eric F. Van de Velde" < > eric.f.vandeve...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.f.vandeve...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Publishers are manipulative capitalists who extort academia by holding > hostage the research papers they stole from helpless scholars on a mission > to save the world. This Hitler vs. Mother Teresa narrative is widespread in > academic circles. Some versions are nearly as shrill as this one. Others > are toned-down and carry scholarly authority. All versions are just plain > wrong. > > To see how this ends, go to > > http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com/2012/11/hitler-mother-teresa-and-coke.html > > Comments welcome. > --Eric. > > http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com > > Google Voice: (626) 898-5415 > Telephone: (626) 376-5415 > Skype: efvandevelde -- Twitter: @evdvelde > E-mail: eric.f.vandeve...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.f.vandeve...@gmail.com> > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org<mailto:GOAL@eprints.org> > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal >
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