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Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Gilbert, It appears that there is more than just global warming, alluded to by George, that has affected your coherence on GN. I am glad that I was able to afford you some comic relief in my last post and thank you for giving me the last word with this one. I do concede, however, that I deliberately misrepresented your comparison of me to your other atheist friends, however unlikely it is that you could have any. I was just yanking your chain for which I apologize. You also seem to have missed the whole point of joining the KoC if all they are to you is a bunch of Guinness swilling louts (which is the least of their faults ;-). Unlike the other secular charitable organisations you mentioned, the KoC specifically have the promotion of Catholic values as one of their major aims, proudly referring themselves as "the strong right arm of the Church" on their website. http://www.kofc.org/un/about/history/index.cfm I don't believe that it would be an understatement to compare them to the fundamentalist factions of any other major religion ie. the Hinduvta/RSS of the Vatican. Although they position themselves as a Catholic Mens Charity, not every council is a registered charity, some even laundering their fund raising proceeds through affiliated parishs which enjoy tax-free status with blessing from the Lord. Much of these funds go to support Vatican initiatives against birth control, abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia, same-sex marriage etc. It is no coincidence that they were named 'Knights', dress up in military outfits complete with swords and act as if they are gearing up for another crusade. Except this one is to keep the faithful in the dark by blinding them with scripture. Their political agenda is hardly a secret.... "In the United States, the Knights of Columbus often adopts socially conservative positions on public issues. They have adopted resolutions advocating a Culture of Life,[37] defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman,[38] and protecting religious expression in public schools, government, and voluntary organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. The Order also funded a postcard campaign in 2005 in an attempt to stop the Canadian parliament from legalizing same-sex marriage." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus#Political_activities In case you missed the last line of the previous paragraph, their 'attempt' failed miserably, making Canada one of the few countries to legalise the homosexual's human right to happiness of a court santioned marriage both at a provincial and federal level. This is an issue that is currently splitting the Anglican Communion pitting the North Americans against the Conservative African bishops. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search the archives for the reference you quoted about my views on homosexuality and their impact on my children. For the record, in my opinion, the Church is completely wrong on their views on homosexuality and for that matter, on sexuality in general - which they have equated to morality. I have been outspoken in my support for homosexual rights, something which encompasses lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered persons. I would encourage all homophobic Catholics to educate themselves on these biological conditions. There would be no reason for me to shield my children from the facts. We can only face our own bigotry when we strive to rise above it. It is not a terminal condition of our human fate. Education with factual evidence based on the scientific method is the only way to redeem ourselves in this world. Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 4:06:09 -0700 From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus ....... I was referring to YOUR standards of decency as an atheist. I then in the very next sentence, went on to compare YOUR standards to my OTHER atheist friends. ....... Your response about the Irish continues to be a non-response, that only you can make sense. Why would the Irish join secret societies when they could drink their Guinness in public? What is wrong with joining societies like the Masons, Rotarians, Lions, Elk lodge etc.? George Washington and many founding fathers of the USA were Masons. As regards the KC fighting issues about "homosexuality" at the behest of the Vatican. Perhaps next, you will write the Evangelicals, Baptists etc. etc. are also stooges of the Vatican. Why would one not expect a Catholic / Christian institution to support "biblical teachings"? Curiously the immorality of homosexuality is what you specifically did not want your children (under 20 years) to be exposed to. Did your kids call you a stooge of the Vatican? After I finish laughing at your inconsistencies ... I would like to save my neurons for a more logical dialogue. Thank you for the comedy. This is my last post on this thread. Kind Regards, GL -- Be impeccable with your word - Don Miguel Ruiz http://www.nderf.org/4AgreementsReview.htm