-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Goveia Sent: 24 June 2008 16:05 To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Was Goa liberated or Conquered ?
1) Mario wrote: Secondly, Paulo doesn't seem to realize that Goa was forcibly and illegitimately colonized in the early 1500's, when many European countries did the same thing, but that the beginning of the end of the era of colonization had started in 1947, the much more powerful Brits and French had left, perhaps reluctantly but somewhat graciously, and the far weaker Portuguese were clinging to a sophistry that made sense only to them, that Goa was an overseas province of Portugal. Paulo's response: Mario must not understand English. I believe I made it very clear that we are all aware that Goa was colonized by Portugal and the Portuguese were our conquerors. There is no denying that fact. 2) Mario wrote: India simply grabbed back in 1961 territory that had been grabbed in the early 1500s. That's the way the world works. If you cannot defend territory that you hold, you have to move on. Paulo's response: Your sentence would be correct if you omit the word "back", ie, India grabbed in 1961 territory that had been grabbed in the early 1500s (from the Portuguese). Please do not use the word "back" because I do not think I need to explain to you that India as a country did not exist before 1947. Do not join the group of ignorant people that claim that Goa always belonged to India. That is completely nonsense. Goa belonged to the Indian subcontinent, not to the newly created country called India (1947). Allow me to point out the differences between early 1500s to 1961. A) Four and a half centuries apart. B) India did recognize the existence of a neighbouring country called Portugal. C) India did have a consulate of India in Goa. D) Both India and Portugal were both members of the UN in 1961. E) Of course conquests and land grabbing do not make any sense if the UN exist. 3) Mario wrote: A democratically elected government in Portugal would have made little difference because Portugal was in no position to militarily defend Goa against India in 1947. In fact, a democratically elected government in Portugal may have been far more gracious and civilized and withdrawn on its own. Paulo's response: Yes, and by withdrawing on its own it would have probably granted independence to Goa or at least hear the requests and the wishes of the Goan people. It would probably also have allowed a plebiscite. 4) Mario wrote: This is like saying, "despite protests by Brit expatriates and Anglo-Indians, the Brits gave up India." Paulo's response: The Brits gave independence to British India. The Brits gave independence to the entity that they themselves created. In the same way, Goans should have expected the Portuguese to give independence to Portuguese India or at least be liberated from the Portuguese by India and given the option to decide their own future democratically. Got it? Did you understand the difference? 5) Mario wrote: Kuwait was a sovereign country before it was invaded by Iraq, not an illegal and obsolete colony of some second rate European country. Paulo's response: Check your facts. The sovereignty of Portugal over Portuguese India was recognised by the entire world, including the UN Organisation and the Indian Union since 1947 until at least 1953 because the Indian Union even had a general consulate of India in Goa! Your claim that it was an illegal colony is wrong and does not have a legal stand. 6) Mario wrote: Anyway, I'm glad to see that Paulo acknowledges the notion of "freedom fighters" which suggests that Goa was not free, which it obviously was not. Anyone who crossed the Portuguese colonists found that out in a hurry. Paulo's response: Of course it was not free. And it is still not free! I am glad that more and more people start realising that, including celebrities like Wendell Rodricks. Only some of us abroad refuse to accept it. 7) Mario wrote: I wonder if Paulo is confusing Goan Christians with Goans? Paulo's response: No Mario, I am not confusing Goan Christians with Goans. I am well aware that Christians have always been a minority. Mario, have you been to Goa recently? Maybe you are the only one that has not noticed that Goans (regardless of their religion) are becoming a minority in Goa. For starters, check who speaks Konkani. But that should not be the only factor because many of the emigrants are learning Konkani to pass as Goans. But everyone (except you) is aware that we are becoming a minority in our motherland. You seem to be living in cuculand if you have not realised this. Everyone is talking about it. If you are not convinced, I give up. As I said before to you on another thread, please take your bike. You won it and you deserve it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 24/06/2008 07:53