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It was precisely to avoid such time-wasting, puerile and pediatric diatribe
that I had defined the terms. Assuming that JC had honestly misunderstood my
expression "Ladainha which is familiar to Goan Catholics" and anticipating
that, as is his wont, he would twist and turn my statements, I had only
clarified what I meant by the following paras in my original post:
"The Goan Hindus have a rite called Satyanarayana Puja which is performed for
almost all the reasons that the Catholics celebrate the Ladainha. In this puja
too the prayers are sung. Therefore, as a substitute, we have a conglomeration
of the Litany of Our Lady in Latin, Salve Rainha and Virgem Mae de Deus in
Portuguese all set to music. (Are the different music scores for these
prevalent anywhere else? I doubt it.) This is followed by the singing the
hymns or 'orasanvam' in honour of the saints of the family (whose images are
present in the oratory). I would be happy to learn of any parallels
elsewhere."
Have the definitions modified my original statement?
My straight question to JC: Do you still contest my surmise that the entire
format of 'ladainha' (elaborated above) as sung in Goa was not brought by the
Portuguese but was put together in Goa itself?
I have not requested him to fetch any U-tubes from the 15th century; just
INFORM us that this format was prevalent in Portugal a couple of centuries ago
so as to be available for export to Goa. If possible, he could also inform us
whether it was exported to some other colony as well.
Now that JC has claimed that he too was one of those who originally thought of
of the project and was associated with some members of the Toronto group, I
would be happy if someone directly connected with the Toronto recording would
tell us whether they would restrict themselves to the recording of only the
litany beginning with "Kyrie eleison" and ending with "Agnus Dei...." or would
they also include the SINGING of Salve Rainha and Virgem Mae de Deus" as well.
This will go a long way to clarify WHAT THEY MEAN by 'ladainha'.
Another suggestion / request to the Toronto group:
In years gone by, during the month of May, almost every ward in Goa used to
celebrate the feast of the Holy Cross where the Latin litany was sung, but with
some differences: (1) the musical accompaniment also included the drums, (2)
the Salve Rainha was replaced with 'Regina Coeli laetare' (upto the feast of
Ascension of Our Lord), (3) the whole rite ended with the singing of
"Exultemos com alegria" to the accompaniment of drums. Nowadays these feasts
have become very rare. Could these, if possible, be also recorded for
posterity, especially when this rite has become almost extinct?
When I visited my original post, I was shocked at the very first sentence
therein. I am glad that JC did not pounce on that; he could have really made
mincemeat of me. When that sentence is read with the rest of the para, the
reader would understand that I was referring to 'ters' as "a purely Goan rite"
which it is not. I was referring to the 'ladainha'; but, from the next
sentence on, I digressed into the situation in Mumbai wrt the 'ters'. My
profound apologies to any reader who might have got this impression.
Sebastian Borges
PS: I do not know whether Girgolina Sattam were prepared at Sokoilo Vaddo but
they were certainly sold at Shimoniposaro next door. No re baba JC? Lembra
nao?(;-)
Sebastian Borges
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 "J. Colaco < jc>" <cola...@gmail.com> wrote:
re 1: please review the original sentence: Did it say "entire" ladainha
"format? Did the Borges post say that? Why modify the statement which was
challenged without acknowledging the chip on one's shoulder?
re 3: so the ladainha sung by Goans ...was home grown? really? The next
thing I will hear is that the Gregorian chant was also home grown in
'Sokoilo Vaddo' in Velim!
What prejudicial nonsense is this?
jc
ps: I am trying to locate Youtube recordings made before 1498 - to satisfy
the Borges question infra. I have been told that some antique recordings
exist. But what is the use if cybercafe's do not allow access to such media?
(;-)
Sebastian Borges <s_m_bor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
1: I would request JC to inform us whether the entire 'ladainha' format, as
SUNG in Goa existed in Portugal or elsewhere at least a couple of centuries
ago.
2: If yes, then we can be certain that it was brought to Goa by the
Portuguese.
3: Else, I shall have to stick to my original statement, "it would be a
fallacy to say that Ladainha which is familiar to Goan Catholics was brought by
the Portuguese"
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