OK, but why ? Based on previous comments I am inclined to start learning Flask & Jinja2. I am still wondering about a Forms engine though (WTForms ?)
BR, Johan Op zaterdag 8 april 2017 11:39:52 UTC+2 schreef timh: > > I will chuck in my 2c worth ;-) > > I prefer pyramid. (and chameleon) > > T > > On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 6:02:36 PM UTC+8, Alex Martelli wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Johan Mutsaerts <joh...@b-advised.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Alex, >>> >>> Great you concur on GAE & Python as good choices for the enterprise web >>> application developer's toolkit (perhaps a good title for a new book?). >>> You seem to be in favor of a best of breed approach in separating >>> template engine and framework, which eliminates the need for heavy lifting >>> of full frameworks (like Django) in favor of leaner (faster) frameworks ? >>> >> >> Yes, jinja2 (while similar to Django templates) is superior, there's no >> need to compromise on the templating front. >> >> >>> I find it difficult to sort candidates in terms of obsolescence, >>> popularity (community support), feature set, learning curve, GAE >>> compatibility ... e.g.: pylons, pyramid ? webapp2, wbe2py ? jinja2, mako ? >>> bottle, flask ? >>> >> >> Django's by far the most popular Python web framework -- 1.7M web hits >> for a search [python django]. jinja2's also popular, but just 380k hits; >> flask, 570k. You can do more searches if you want to base your choice on >> popularity. Other indications is that there are conferences entirely >> devoted to Django but not ones entirely about other Python web frameworks. >> >> >>> Is Django really the only framework for developers 'on a deadline' ? on >>> GAE ? using NDB ? If I read you right, your preference goes to Flask and >>> Jinja2 ? Can you elaborate a bit on the why's ? >>> >> >> jinja2 gives me complete, accurate control of templating -- I'd never >> downgrade to any other templating system (if I am templating server-side at >> all -- these days it's often better to write the server side as a REST or >> other API server, and do all the UI work, templating or otherwise, on the >> Javascript client side on the browser). >> >> As for the framework (templating apart), I think flask is objectively >> superior, with a sharp and simple, though powerful, architecture. However >> personally I'm more used to webapp2, having used it for years, so if I'm >> doing a simple web app I'm more likely to reach for it -- habit's a >> powerful force:-). In any case, it will be a lightweight system because I >> don't have to "buy into" lots of architectural and design choices imbued in >> a rich/heavy framework, but rather can make my own choices depending on >> where I'm going to deploy and what (if anything) I need to optimize for. >> (Often, e.g for an internal dashboard which will have a few dozen users at >> most, there's no optimization needed at all -- then I can emphasize >> simplicity and speed of deployment -- just as an example). >> >> >>> >>> Good luck with the book and the conference. >>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alex >> >> >> >>> TIA, Johan >>> >>> >>> Op woensdag 5 april 2017 17:48:04 UTC+2 schreef Alex Martelli: >>>> >>>> Of course these questions are quite connected with personal opinion, >>>> and since I'm the author of "Python in a Nutshell" (3rd edition due out >>>> any >>>> day now), you can guess where my bias lies:-). Still, FWIW, here are my >>>> opinions (hope others chime in!-)...: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Johan Mutsaerts <joh...@b-advised.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Starting your own company is never easy. A dream and a good idea is >>>>> needed but not sufficient. In my case, enterprise software development >>>>> skills for non-web applications need to be brushed up, so careful choices >>>>> to be made: >>>>> 1. GAE PaaS : AFAIK great value for little money, it simply works, >>>>> always, anywhere, no need for sysops >>>>> >>>> >>>> I concur (but I'm biased on this one too:-). >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2. Python : AFAIK highest productivity language, modular, functional, >>>>> object-oriented, popular >>>>> >>>> >>>> Ditto (in fact I'm right now in Florence, Italy, about to present a >>>> keynote at Pycon Italia Otto on Friday:-). >>>> >>>> >>>>> 3. Framework ? web2py, pyramid, django, web2app, jinja2 ? I need high >>>>> productivity, efficient use of Datastore noSQL, MVC ?, templates, >>>>> scaffolding, boilerplate code generation ... >>>>> >>>> >>>> My bias here is for *lightweight* frameworks, of which Flask is the >>>> most popular (webapp2, bottle and falcon are fine too) -- I devote an >>>> entire chapter in the Nutshell 3rd ed to these four frameworks >>>> (templating, >>>> esp. jinjia2 which works well with them all but especially Flask, is >>>> another chapter -- no sense to have templating as PART of a framework, any >>>> more than it would to have the kitchen sink in there, IMNSHO:-). >>>> >>>> I've wasted too much time in my life debugging boilerplate code >>>> resulting from code generation: nowadays I insist on writing the code >>>> myself in the first place (less likely to need debugging, and if it does >>>> at >>>> least I should know why I coded the way I did, right?-). For Datastore >>>> access, I use ndb (comes with App Engine Python, and was originally >>>> authored by Guido van Rossum), not any framework that was designed to talk >>>> SQL and gets shoehorned into NoSql willy-nilly:-)... >>>> >>>> >>>>> I want to invest the time and effort to re-tool and up-skill, but as a >>>>> *N*ewbie *S*eeking *A*dvice on Python Frameworks, I could use some >>>>> solid advice from you. >>>>> >>>> >>>> HTH! >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thx & BR. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to google-appengi...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to google-a...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/0297273b-5c6e-4586-96a9-72f78f4a34d4%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/0297273b-5c6e-4586-96a9-72f78f4a34d4%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to google-appengi...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to google-a...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/1bb13a7f-7f76-4d6c-9909-23944bff5e15%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/1bb13a7f-7f76-4d6c-9909-23944bff5e15%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. 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