I frankly did not understand the connect between "importing" post-modernism and caste discrimination. Of course plurality in the South Asian context writ large by caste is problematic, that I have no doubts about, but what does post-modernism have to do with it?
On 20/07/2008, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > especially celebrating plurality in indian societies, where caste > discriminations are at worst, demands high vigilance for not being part of > importing european postmodernism. > > On 7/20/08, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> prasad and salim seems to be taking plurality for granted as being plural >> is virtous and democratic. ........plurality of voices in discussion may be >> good.... but a pluarality of abuses and methods of violations is >> what?.............. plurality of evil-doers... >> >> On 7/20/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Interestng to note the dialectics, the pligrimage industry, which >>> inckudes large tour operators to local taxi drivers articulate the same >>> stuff. >>> >>> A 'pligrim' coming to Kerala in search of 'solace' as advised by the >>> "jyostya" ( who is pivotal in this industry) is led to sevral temples which >>> are linearaly inter-connected in the new narrative. At the same time >>> 'nativist' myth of each temples integrated to a national religious system >>> 'on the way' ( actually going by the road) is promoted. >>> >>> Everyone 'materially' happy... the tourist pligrim, tour operator, guide, >>> devasom... all are satisfied... >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Interestingly this co-option that Damodar talks about can be witnessed >>>> everywhere and of course the infighting between cults/sects/sub-castes >>>> have >>>> to be glossed over in a Parivar kind of agenda - a result is reactionary >>>> homogenisation of communities that percieve a threat from this agenda - I >>>> see the NDF as such a phenomenon. >>>> One of the points in the de Roover article (though he articulated it >>>> subcersively) in an earlier post was about the notion of a pan "Hindu" >>>> identity being an orientalist construct borrowed as a convenient tool by >>>> the Parivar version of nationalism. >>>> However the localist revivalism as far as I have seen happens only in >>>> the context of a larger agenda of homogenisation. The village that my >>>> father >>>> comes from has a Bhagwati who is supposed to be one of the sisters of >>>> Kodungallur Amma - now how the Kodungallur myth evolved and the variant >>>> stories themselves are being subjected to a linear narrative and worse a >>>> perverse form of purification. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20/07/2008, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Since idol worship is central to several practices that constitute >>>>> 'hindu' religion and local gods and godesses and cults based on a supermo >>>>> and constructions of myths are so innumerable that imposing of >>>>> 'pan-indian' >>>>> natonal identity on gods/godesses of local varaints were part of the >>>>> cultural nationalistic agenda promoted by the parivar. The local gods were >>>>> acquired, some through the process of what in corporate terms can be >>>>> called >>>>> as 'hostile bidding' or acquisiton in the name of big ones in the periods >>>>> when parivar was expandign its base. In my local town and near by vilages >>>>> I've seen this. In TVM, also I recenty saw this. >>>>> >>>>> I *referred to plurality in this sense* . same also is the case with >>>>> many ramayanas available (which is slowly beng erased even by the >>>>> publishing >>>>> industry) >>>>> >>>>> My second point was that there was also in-fight between gods based on >>>>> perhaps rivalarly between 'gothrums'. But this was erased from the >>>>> collctive >>>>> memory only to pose a hostile distinction between religions. >>>>> >>>>> But now there is a return to localism as favoured by the religious >>>>> tourism and pligrimage industry. Reviving of local myths adaptable to >>>>> induce >>>>> a localist flavour for consumption s also being tried. >>>>> >>>>> damodar prasad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/08, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> plurality is interesting in a transmodern thought context. islam, >>>>>> ofcourse with one God, accomodate the plurality of multiple ways of being >>>>>> human. multiple Gods were not really found mandatory for plurality in >>>>>> beliefs, lif style and even in prayers. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> From: damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> Date: Jul 20, 2008 8:42 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: vasundhra raje's temple >>>>>>> To: Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Going by the hindu traditions (in plural) there are all chances that >>>>>>> a new day begins with an invention of new god or goddess. The cultures >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> veneration impliict in the sevral several streams of beliefs and >>>>>>> faiths (urbanized and tribal) available in the sub continent enables the >>>>>>> possibility of *discover*y of gods and godesses every day. Temple, >>>>>>> diety and idol will follow from this and suubsequent to this >>>>>>> desecration as >>>>>>> well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The various histories of temple desceration as part of rivalarly >>>>>>> between kings and even kith and kind and also intra-*gothrum*warfare is >>>>>>> erased from the collective memory to bring attention for >>>>>>> political advantages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Its upsetting that RSS version of history that implicates only >>>>>>> Muslim rulers as desecrators is effectively availble in popular hsitory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For RSS and for establishing its one nation theory, a regimented >>>>>>> religion based on vedas and smrithis is necessary. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the fiath and beliefs is consistenty challengign this >>>>>>> codification. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But Rajes temple is not in anyway conencted with this. It may be a >>>>>>> sort of ad. work where she is facing anti-incumbency and also resistance >>>>>>> within the BJP. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/08, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cant find some thing unusual in this.. May be something similar to >>>>>>>> what Jayalalitha used to play in Tamil Naadu.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But can RSS brand of hindu cultural nationalism definitely will have >>>>>>>> a problem in acknowledging this though they might compromise for the >>>>>>>> broad >>>>>>>> hindu interests ... But there is no contradiction in their stance.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Afthab Ellath >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:45 PM, damodar prasad < >>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For devout Hindus, what more exciting news to know about a temple >>>>>>>>> being built for *Seeta Mayya* as Ramayana reading month is >>>>>>>>> celebarated by TBS to DC to Mathrubhumi... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> RSS problem perhaps is only with the colonial-raj combination of >>>>>>>>> chaste english Rajasthan CM speaks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/19/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting development in Rajasthan. Thought this news has to be >>>>>>>>>> shared. Wonder what the BJP is upto, since it looks like about to >>>>>>>>>> face a >>>>>>>>>> defeat in Rajasthan >>>>>>>>>> However as a note, Malaram Bishnoi is a formidable Bishnoi leader >>>>>>>>>> and his position is the most interesting >>>>>>>>>> (Bishnoi's are an intersting syncretic community based mostly in >>>>>>>>>> Rajasthan) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>> From: ajay bishnoi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>> Date: 19 Jul 2008 16:24 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: vasundhra raje's temple >>>>>>>>>> To: Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hello bobby >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> read this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> RSS opposes Raje temple >>>>>>>>>> ASIANAGE 14 July, 2008 07:54:30 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *By Narayan Bareth* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jaipur >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> July 14: Even though the villagers are protesting against the >>>>>>>>>> building of a temple depicting Rajasthan chief minister Vasundhara >>>>>>>>>> Raje as >>>>>>>>>> goddess "May Kalyani" at Beru village in Jodhpur district, priest >>>>>>>>>> Hemant >>>>>>>>>> Bohra has refused to budge. But the RSS is unhappy with efforts to >>>>>>>>>> build the >>>>>>>>>> temple in the name of a human being. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mr Bohra said he had hired a sculptor to shape the four-foot-high >>>>>>>>>> idol of Ms Raje as a goddess riding a lion. As Mr Bohra claimed, the >>>>>>>>>> temple >>>>>>>>>> would be built on his own land. But the villagers say the land is >>>>>>>>>> owned by >>>>>>>>>> their Vishnoi community and has been used as a burial site for >>>>>>>>>> centuries. >>>>>>>>>> The Vishnois bury their dead and there are "samadhis" of their >>>>>>>>>> ancestors at >>>>>>>>>> the site. "We will not allow any temple here. Why has Mr Bohra >>>>>>>>>> decided to >>>>>>>>>> build a temple here," asks Malaram Vishnoi, a community leader. The >>>>>>>>>> police >>>>>>>>>> has asked both parties to maintain status quo. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The ruling BJP has maintained a stoic silence but RSS spokesperson >>>>>>>>>> in Rajasthan Kanhaiya Lal Chaturvedi said, "No one would like to see >>>>>>>>>> a human >>>>>>>>>> being projected as a god or goddess." "It is a time of sycophancy in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> polity of India. You can see Congressmen naming everything after the >>>>>>>>>> late >>>>>>>>>> Rajiv Gandhi, Lalu's life story was included in textbooks, and this >>>>>>>>>> is an >>>>>>>>>> expansion of the same trend," he added >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://howrah. org/india_ news/18812. >>>>>>>>>> html<http://howrah.org/india_news/18812.html> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Bobby Kunhu >>>>>>>>>> http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Bobby Kunhu >>>>>>>> http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> > -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. 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