I frankly did not understand the connect between "importing" post-modernism
and caste discrimination. Of course plurality in the South Asian context
writ large by caste is problematic, that I have no doubts about, but what
does post-modernism have to do with it?

On 20/07/2008, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> especially celebrating plurality in indian societies, where caste
> discriminations are at worst, demands high vigilance for not being part of
> importing european postmodernism.
>
> On 7/20/08, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> prasad and salim seems to be taking plurality for granted as being plural
>> is virtous and democratic. ........plurality of voices in discussion may be
>> good.... but a pluarality of abuses and methods of violations is
>> what?.............. plurality of evil-doers...
>>
>> On 7/20/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Interestng to note the dialectics, the pligrimage industry, which
>>> inckudes large tour operators to local taxi drivers articulate the same
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> A 'pligrim' coming to Kerala in search of 'solace' as advised by the
>>> "jyostya" ( who is pivotal in this industry) is led to sevral temples which
>>> are linearaly inter-connected in the new narrative. At the same time
>>> 'nativist' myth of each temples integrated to a national religious system
>>> 'on the way' ( actually going by the road) is promoted.
>>>
>>> Everyone 'materially' happy... the tourist pligrim, tour operator, guide,
>>> devasom... all are satisfied...
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 7/20/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly this co-option that Damodar talks about can be witnessed
>>>> everywhere  and of course the infighting between cults/sects/sub-castes 
>>>> have
>>>> to be glossed over in a Parivar kind of agenda - a result is reactionary
>>>> homogenisation of communities that percieve a threat from this agenda - I
>>>> see the NDF as such a phenomenon.
>>>> One of the points in the de Roover article (though he articulated it
>>>> subcersively) in an earlier post was about the notion of a pan "Hindu"
>>>> identity  being an orientalist construct borrowed as a convenient tool by
>>>> the Parivar version of nationalism.
>>>> However the localist revivalism as far as I have seen happens only in
>>>> the context of a larger agenda of homogenisation. The village that my 
>>>> father
>>>> comes from has a Bhagwati who is supposed to be one of the sisters of
>>>> Kodungallur Amma - now how the Kodungallur myth evolved and the variant
>>>> stories themselves are being subjected to a linear narrative and worse a
>>>> perverse form of purification.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 20/07/2008, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Since idol worship is central to several practices that constitute
>>>>> 'hindu' religion and local gods and godesses and cults based on a supermo
>>>>> and constructions of myths are so innumerable that imposing of 
>>>>> 'pan-indian'
>>>>> natonal identity on gods/godesses of local varaints were part of the
>>>>> cultural nationalistic agenda promoted by the parivar. The local gods were
>>>>> acquired, some through the process of what in corporate terms can be 
>>>>> called
>>>>> as 'hostile bidding' or acquisiton in the name of big ones in the periods
>>>>> when parivar was expandign its base. In my local town and near by vilages
>>>>> I've seen this. In TVM, also I recenty saw this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I *referred to plurality in this sense* . same also is the case with
>>>>> many ramayanas available (which is slowly beng erased even by the 
>>>>> publishing
>>>>> industry)
>>>>>
>>>>> My second point was that there was also in-fight between gods based on
>>>>> perhaps rivalarly between 'gothrums'. But this was erased from the 
>>>>> collctive
>>>>> memory only to pose a hostile distinction between religions.
>>>>>
>>>>> But now there is a return to localism as favoured by the religious
>>>>> tourism and pligrimage industry. Reviving of local myths adaptable to 
>>>>> induce
>>>>> a localist flavour for consumption s also being tried.
>>>>>
>>>>> damodar prasad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On 7/20/08, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> plurality is interesting in a transmodern thought context. islam,
>>>>>> ofcourse with one God, accomodate the plurality of multiple ways of being
>>>>>> human. multiple Gods were not really found mandatory for plurality in
>>>>>> beliefs, lif style and even in prayers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/20/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>> From: damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>> Date: Jul 20, 2008 8:42 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: vasundhra raje's temple
>>>>>>> To: Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Going by the hindu traditions (in plural) there are all chances that
>>>>>>> a new day begins with an invention of new god or goddess. The cultures 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> veneration impliict in the sevral several streams of beliefs and
>>>>>>> faiths (urbanized and tribal) available in the sub continent enables the
>>>>>>> possibility of *discover*y of gods and godesses every day. Temple,
>>>>>>> diety and idol will follow from this and suubsequent to this 
>>>>>>> desecration as
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The various histories of temple desceration as part of rivalarly
>>>>>>> between kings and even kith and kind and also intra-*gothrum*warfare is 
>>>>>>> erased from the collective memory to bring attention for
>>>>>>> political advantages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its upsetting that  RSS version of history that  implicates only
>>>>>>> Muslim rulers as desecrators is effectively availble in popular hsitory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For RSS and for establishing its one nation theory, a regimented
>>>>>>> religion based on vedas and smrithis is necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the fiath and beliefs is consistenty challengign this
>>>>>>> codification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Rajes temple is not in anyway conencted with this. It may be a
>>>>>>> sort of ad. work where she is facing anti-incumbency and also resistance
>>>>>>> within the BJP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/19/08, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I cant find some thing unusual in this.. May be something similar to
>>>>>>>> what Jayalalitha used to play in Tamil Naadu..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But can RSS brand of hindu cultural nationalism definitely will have
>>>>>>>> a problem in acknowledging this though they might compromise for the 
>>>>>>>> broad
>>>>>>>> hindu interests ... But there is no contradiction in  their stance..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Afthab Ellath
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:45 PM, damodar prasad <
>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For devout Hindus, what more exciting news to know about a temple
>>>>>>>>> being built for *Seeta Mayya* as Ramayana reading month is
>>>>>>>>> celebarated by TBS to DC to Mathrubhumi...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RSS problem perhaps is only with the colonial-raj combination of
>>>>>>>>> chaste english Rajasthan CM speaks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting development in Rajasthan. Thought this news has to be
>>>>>>>>>> shared. Wonder what the BJP is upto,  since it looks like about to 
>>>>>>>>>> face a
>>>>>>>>>> defeat in Rajasthan
>>>>>>>>>> However as a note, Malaram Bishnoi is a formidable Bishnoi leader
>>>>>>>>>> and his position is the most interesting
>>>>>>>>>> (Bishnoi's are an intersting syncretic community based mostly in
>>>>>>>>>> Rajasthan)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>> From: ajay bishnoi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: 19 Jul 2008 16:24
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: vasundhra raje's temple
>>>>>>>>>> To: Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  hello bobby
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> read this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  RSS opposes Raje temple
>>>>>>>>>> ASIANAGE 14 July, 2008 07:54:30
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *By Narayan Bareth*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jaipur
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> July 14: Even though the villagers are protesting against the
>>>>>>>>>> building of a temple depicting Rajasthan chief minister Vasundhara 
>>>>>>>>>> Raje as
>>>>>>>>>> goddess "May Kalyani" at Beru village in Jodhpur district, priest 
>>>>>>>>>> Hemant
>>>>>>>>>> Bohra has refused to budge. But the RSS is unhappy with efforts to 
>>>>>>>>>> build the
>>>>>>>>>> temple in the name of a human being.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr Bohra said he had hired a sculptor to shape the four-foot-high
>>>>>>>>>> idol of Ms Raje as a goddess riding a lion. As Mr Bohra claimed, the 
>>>>>>>>>> temple
>>>>>>>>>> would be built on his own land. But the villagers say the land is 
>>>>>>>>>> owned by
>>>>>>>>>> their Vishnoi community and has been used as a burial site for 
>>>>>>>>>> centuries.
>>>>>>>>>> The Vishnois bury their dead and there are "samadhis" of their 
>>>>>>>>>> ancestors at
>>>>>>>>>> the site. "We will not allow any temple here. Why has Mr Bohra 
>>>>>>>>>> decided to
>>>>>>>>>> build a temple here," asks Malaram Vishnoi, a community leader. The 
>>>>>>>>>> police
>>>>>>>>>> has asked both parties to maintain status quo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The ruling BJP has maintained a stoic silence but RSS spokesperson
>>>>>>>>>> in Rajasthan Kanhaiya Lal Chaturvedi said, "No one would like to see 
>>>>>>>>>> a human
>>>>>>>>>> being projected as a god or goddess." "It is a time of sycophancy in 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> polity of India. You can see Congressmen naming everything after the 
>>>>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>>>>> Rajiv Gandhi, Lalu's life story was included in textbooks, and this 
>>>>>>>>>> is an
>>>>>>>>>> expansion of the same trend," he added
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://howrah. org/india_ news/18812. 
>>>>>>>>>> html<http://howrah.org/india_news/18812.html>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Bobby Kunhu
>>>>>>>>>> http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Bobby Kunhu
>>>>>>>> http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>


-- 
Bobby Kunhu
http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/

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