On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:01:20AM +0200, Élie Roux wrote: > > I've seen discussions from last year about adding nabc support to > > gregorio, has there been any progress on it since then? > > There has been some progress but nothing visible yet: first, did you see > the two St Gall fonts that were open-sourced? Also, I've made
You mean https://mail.gna.org/public/gregorio-users/2013-07/msg00026.html ? I haven't until now, the modern one looks very nice and contains lots of glyphs, though various needed are still missing (e.g. in author's naming terminology distrol, bivirl, virstre, the two special forms of pes quassus which look like pes quadratus (and pes quadratus liquescens) with oriscus attached to it (pq5 and pq6 shapes in my font), I miss one liquescens clivis shape (cl11 shape in my font), various pressus shapes (melody alt form with ~ gravis instead of punctum for both maior and minor, liquescens forms for both minor and maior), some torculus modifications of shape, perhaps scandicus with three punctis (virga pretripunctis, scpppv ?), various salicus forms, trigonus alt form (tg2), two trigonus modifications of the mark (ones I haven't found either), trigonus melody modified, and all the letter significativa (even in modern look form using just ordinary contemporary alphabetic font is going to look weird, especially if some letters in manuscripts were written differently (e.g. s) and various sequences had special glyphs (e.g. statim vs. sursum tenere). If the font has say all the 40+ alphabetic signs (some of them can be constructed by just combining, but lots of them can't), then perhaps the font should also contain the most common letter adjuncted neumes (I mean the celeriter, tenete, tenete + episema, celeriter + tenete, expectare and frendor adjuncted neumes at least from Cardine's table). Is there a newer version of the modern (or ancient) font? The old style looks also nice, but at least the version you've posted didn't contain too many glyphs, my shapes are not as clean as in that font, but the intent was similar, to have an ancient style looking font. > arrangements to be able to work on this full time during a few weeks > this autumn, so it will speed up at that time! Glad to hear that. > This is a very impressive job, and this will be extremely helpful! > > > Also, I'm still missing about 29 glyphs from Cardine's Gregorian > > Semiology pp12-13, > > Hmm, I don't see many glyphs pp12-13 but we might not have the same Perhaps it is different page in the French original? I've been using (well, just in the last 14 days of the evening work) the English translation, before that just Graduale Triplex and the manuscripts (plus occassional look at Antiphonale Monasticum, Nocturnale Romanum, Offertoriale Triplex), and the lettera significativa often with help of a diploma thesis (in czech) I found at http://theses.cz/id/9b10pv/96548-338988687.pdf (pp141-142). > edition, are you talking about the big table? Yes, I'm talking about the big table. I've tried to recreate roughly the same table on the first page of http://people.redhat.com/jakub/gregall/gregall.{odt,pdf} (just with an attempt to categorize the glyphs even more), the lime background in the table indicates there is some glyph in Cardine's table which I haven't found yet (and cyan background a glyph not in Cardine's table, but e.g. seen elsewhere in Gregorian Semiology or just in the manuscripts). Note, I've updated that document this morning, so that it uses the s/m/g modifiers in the heading. > > am not opposing to other reasonable license. > > I tend to prefer OFL for fonts, but it's a detail... http://scripts.sil.org/OFL_web ? No problem. > > and if yes, would appreciate any advices or help (hints where to find > > missing glyphs in the MSS > > I might not be the best person to ask this... Does anyone on the list > have an idea? The only advise I could tell would be to subscribe and ask on > > http://gregorian-chant.ning.com/ > > Or, it might be obvious, but did you check the volumes of Paléographie > Musicale? Many are on archive.org. No, but I'll surely have a look and ask on gregorian-chant too. > > perhaps help with improving the shape of some glyphs, what to do with > > character spacing and kerning, > > This is no obvious question... My first guess would be the following: > - leaving a small space before and after, same for all glyphs > - kerning if you have time but don't spend too much time on it, as it > will be handled by Gregorio in the case of square+St Gall neumes > alignment... do you see what I mean? It's highly possible that Gregorio > won't use these kernings and make its own. I'm not very proficient with TeX, if the font doesn't have kerning info, where would the kerning info come from? Knowledge embedded in the gregorio program, the LuaTeX style, some lua script, elsewhere? I mean if e.g. in the same neumatic group there is a virga followed by e.g. porrectus with episema, the virga as well as start of porrectus have similar tilt and in the manuscripts seems to be very close to each other. > > if each glyph should be repeated for each base pitch (perhaps using > > some fontforge script?). > > No need for that, this will be handled by Gregorio too (well, TeX > actually, to be more precise). But for things like subpuncta and > prepuncta, see below. > > Thinking back about this, there might be a reason why you would want to > do this, it's if you want your font to be useable outside Gregorio. For > instance Gregoria and Grecilia are useable outside Gregorio. The good > thing is that you don't have to use a TeX system, the bad thing is that > it requires quite a lot of work and tricks in the font, and that the > result will never be as good: in TeX you can basically do whatever you > want, the only limit is you imagination, while OTF fonts obviously don't > allow that... Using the font outside of TeX/Gregorio is not my immediate priority, so if it would involve lots of work that TeX/Gregorio couldn't use, perhaps better would be spend my time on improving the shapes, filling the missing characters, perhaps eventually Laon. > > As for the nabc language: > > http://www.gregoriochant.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/gregowiki:language I'm > > wondering: 1) if there shouldn't be a separate two letter type for > > pressus maior vs. pressus minor 2) perhaps similarly for the 3 vs. 2 > > arcs quilisma > > Why not, but as I've been forgetting many things since last year, can > you elaborate a bit why? Because pretty much all pressus glyphs (with the exception of pressus maior with episema (and episema and celeriter) are there both for maior and minor, instead of saying for pressus minor it is alternate form in all cases it is IMHO better to say which pressus you mean, after all, the glyphs are very different (pressus maior virga + oriscus + punctum, pressus minor just oriscus + punctum). Similarly for quilismas (in the modern font above the author also uses everywhere ql2 vs. ql3 in the names). > > 4) for subpuncta (and prepuncta), it would be nice to be able to > > specify the shape individually, punctum vs. tractulus vs. tractulus > > with episema vs. tractulus with episema on both sides vs. stropha > > liquescens, > > This would be necessary indeed, thanks! In the modern font the author already seems to have glyphs for the standalone pre and subpunctas of various orders and kinds (characters 196 through 220). > > perhaps with special glyphs in the font for the common combination of > > the subpunctis or prepunctis that would have proper kerning against > > most commonly subpunctized or prepunctized neumes > > Well, I haven't studied the question enough, but what I would > instinctively do is to make some precomposed glyphs for most commons > subpunctis and prepunctis combinations... and let Gregorio handle > special cases. What do you think? Yeah. > > 5) as I found far more ls:XXX kinds than the current wiki has, > > perhaps it would be nice to extend the table > > It would be good indeed, do you have an account on the wiki with write > access? If so, do not hesitate to modify it with new proposals! I don't, guess I should create one. 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